# Is the Life Force A Real Force?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 5, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984 "2015-09-05T05:18:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@halman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/halman)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/1 "2015-09-05T05:18:43Z")
Ever since I saw “Star Wars”, I have been wondering about whether the Force is real or not. Now, I am talking about something which takes chaos, in the form of garbage, and turns it into complexity, in the form of life. I am also including the effect noted when two or more people work together, and they produce more than they could working separately. Also on the table is the effect of people focusing their attention on something as a group, and the power of emotional thinking. We are searching for some explanation of why the Cosmos is expanding at an increasing rate, and, faced with evidence which seems irrefutable, we postulate something called ‘dark energy’. We can’t see it, but its effects are obvious. The Life Force is the same.
The Life Force is the opposite of entropy, which tears everything down. Entropy is enshrined in a the second law of thermodynamics, if I understand things correctly, and is therefor accepted as a real thing. Shouldn’t there be a way of expressing what we feel in the spring time, or how the stars have created what makes up our bodies? We call these things ‘mystical’, or ‘spiritual’, as if to deny them scientific validity. Just because we don’t know how to measure it does not mean that it doesn’t exist.
There seems to me to be a tension between energy and emptiness, with both trying to overcome the other. Energy doesn’t just try to expand into the emptiness, it strives to fill the emptiness completely. And the emptiness doesn’t just envelop the energy, it tries to absorb it, assimilate, make it uniform, empty. So the Life Force may have started when hot hydrogen burst into existence in the middle of Emptiness. The spiral that we see so often in nature is this tension expressed, a visual representation of the Life Force.
This duality is seen throughout the universe, a demonstration of what it is that makes us what we are.
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### Author:  [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/2 "2015-09-05T06:00:59Z")
No.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/3 "2015-09-05T06:44:19Z")
Science has pretty much proven that it isn’t.
Life is an emergent property of chemicals. Chemistry is an incredibly rich field, with molecules capable of doing all sorts of truly amazing things. The fact that there are molecules that can reproduce themselves is the key to life. Once you’ve got that, Katy bar the door.
For whatever it’s worth, the life force appears very much like a real thing. It takes a really advanced science and technology to be able to perform the actual experiments that demonstrate that it isn’t, after all, real.
To anyone who is just out for a walk in the forest, the illusion of the life force is overwhelming and convincing. It is still a central part of the way we think as we go about our everyday lives (just as “The sun goes up and the sun goes down” also is.)
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### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/4 "2015-09-05T07:07:51Z")
Just because you understand something in a mechanistic way doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate its complexity or beauty or think of it in a poetic sense. Indeed, you may appreciate it even more. I believe this was a major point in _Unweaving the Rainbow_ by Dawkins.
[Vitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism) went out of style a long time ago.
Your OP reminded me of this [idea about why life exists.](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-physics-theory-of-life/)
> [@](#):
>
> From the standpoint of physics, there is one essential difference between living things and inanimate clumps of carbon atoms: The former tend to be much better at capturing energy from their environment and dissipating that energy as heat. Jeremy England, a 31-year-old assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has derived a mathematical formula that he believes explains this capacity. The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy. This could mean that under certain conditions, matter inexorably acquires the key physical attribute associated with life.
I don’t know how seriously that was taken. The energy life consumes is a rounding error on the grand scale, but it’s still interesting, I guess.
There are a variety of [self organizing systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization) where order arises from chaos. I think life is just an extreme form of this.
In fantasy settings in books, video games, etc. the four elements are often used as a base. Sometimes fire is the energy of life. Othertimes there are additional ements like void, space, death, etc. or life, spirit, and so on. Sometimes, everything is arranged as either order or chaos. Sometimes, life is on the side of order, and chaos wants to destroy everything. Sometimes life is on the side of chaos because perfect order would be a dead crystal, so chaos beats in the heart of life. Or life is a battle or dance between chaos and order, a delicate balance. Although fun, it’s probably a good idea not to confuse any of that with real world science.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/5 "2015-09-05T10:31:42Z")
Although I don’t believe in a mystical life force, I think it should be pointed out no one has as yet generated a synthetic life form from scratch from plain matter. Life only comes from life, and we have very little idea how life began from non-life, some of the old scientific ideas are pretty silly such as lightning hitting primordial soup etc.
Even so called synthetic life involves using an existing cell.
> **[Craig Venter creates synthetic life form](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form)**
>
> Craig Venter and his team have built the genome of a bacterium from scratch and put it into a cell to make a synthetic life form
> **[Synthetic biology | Synthetic life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#Synthetic_life)**
>
> One important topic in synthetic biology is synthetic life, that is concerned with hypothetical organisms created in vitro from biomolecules and/or chemical analogues thereof. Synthetic life experiments attempt to either probe the origins of life, study some of the properties of life, or more ambitiously to recreate life from non-living (abiotic) components. Synthetic life biology attempts to create living organisms capable of carrying out important functions, from manufacturing pharmaceuticals t...
Even though it doesn’t exist, it almost might as well.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/6 "2015-09-05T11:05:37Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> Although I don’t believe in a mystical life force, I think it should be pointed out no one has as yet generated a synthetic life form from scratch from plain matter. Life only comes from life, and we have very little idea how life began from non-life, some of the old scientific ideas are pretty silly such as lightning hitting primordial soup etc.
Fundamentally, we have the issue that at some point, earth did not have life, and then it did have life. At some point, life _necessarily_ must have come from non-life.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/7 "2015-09-05T12:31:24Z")
Fiat lux. yes, how else do you explain the urge to reproduce? There is something built into all life, which drives it on.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/8 "2015-09-05T12:43:09Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> Fiat lux. yes, how else do you explain the urge to reproduce? There is something built into all life, which drives it on.
Yeah, it’s called DNA, not “lifeforce”.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/9 "2015-09-05T12:45:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> Fundamentally, we have the issue that at some point, earth did not have life, and then it did have life. At some point, life _necessarily_ must have come from non-life.
Of course, but we don’t know how and all we have are theories.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/10 "2015-09-05T12:47:02Z")
**marshmallow** touched on this, but it bears repeating: Life is not in any sense whatsoever the opposite of entropy. Life, in fact, _hastens_ the increase of entropy.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/11 "2015-09-05T12:56:28Z")
Yes, the substance of our universe patterns itself after life because the universe is itself alive, we and all life is part of that. Our chemistry and chemical life forms are ‘mimicking’ and come together the way they are to form life as we know it and analyze it, not because they are life, but life ‘force’ is real and substance will tend to be drawn into living patterns.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/12 "2015-09-05T13:43:58Z")
> [@halman](#):
>
> Just because we don’t know how to measure it does not mean that it doesn’t exist.
But that we don’t know how to **detect** it might.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/13 "2015-09-05T14:49:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Yes, the substance of our universe patterns itself after life because the universe is itself alive, we and all life is part of that. Our chemistry and chemical life forms are ‘mimicking’ and come together the way they are to form life as we know it and analyze it, not because they are life, but life ‘force’ is real and substance will tend to be drawn into living patterns.
And the scientific evidence for this is…?
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### Author:  [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/14 "2015-09-05T18:17:43Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> Although I don’t believe in a mystical life force, I think it should be pointed out no one has as yet generated a synthetic life form from scratch from plain matter. Life only comes from life, and we have very little idea how life began from non-life, some of the old scientific ideas are pretty silly such as lightning hitting primordial soup etc.
>
> Even so called synthetic life involves using an existing cell.
>
> [Craig Venter creates synthetic life form | Craig Venter | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form)
>
> [Synthetic biology - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology#Synthetic_life)
>
> Even though it doesn’t exist, it almost might as well.
Full-on completely synthetic life is absolutely coming, this is a technical hurdle, not a conceptual one. Give it another couple of years; its getting easier to do this stuff all the time.
While not quite life, I routinely synthesize complete artificial viral genomes. I actually do it online - that’s how easy it is.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/15 "2015-09-05T19:42:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> Science has pretty much proven that it isn’t.
>
> Life is an emergent property of chemicals. Chemistry is an incredibly rich field, with molecules capable of doing all sorts of truly amazing things. The fact that there are molecules that can reproduce themselves is the key to life. Once you’ve got that, Katy bar the door.
>
> For whatever it’s worth, the life force appears very much like a real thing. It takes a really advanced science and technology to be able to perform the actual experiments that demonstrate that it isn’t, after all, real.
>
> To anyone who is just out for a walk in the forest, the illusion of the life force is overwhelming and convincing. It is still a central part of the way we think as we go about our everyday lives (just as “The sun goes up and the sun goes down” also is.)
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/16 "2015-09-05T20:10:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> Fiat lux. yes, how else do you explain the urge to reproduce? There is something built into all life, which drives it on.
If your parents didn’t have children, chances are you won’t have children either.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/17 "2015-09-05T20:12:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> I find your lack of faith disturbing.
But even Vader provided experimental evidence.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/18 "2015-09-05T21:16:27Z")
Well, it must be since it allows the unassisted and unpowered lifting of small, oblong objects.
Or it could be blood pressure doing it, what the hell.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/19 "2015-09-05T22:08:35Z")
> [@halman](#):
>
> Ever since I saw “Star Wars”, I have been wondering about whether the Force is real or not. Now, I am talking about something which takes chaos, in the form of garbage, and turns it into complexity, in the form of life. I am also including the \*\*effect \*\*noted when two or more people work together, and they produce more than they could working separately. Also on the table is the \*\*effect \*\*of people focusing their attention on something as a group, and the power of emotional thinking. We are searching for some explanation of why the Cosmos is expanding at an increasing rate, and, faced with evidence which seems irrefutable, we postulate something called ‘dark energy’. We can’t see it, but its \*\*effects \*\*are obvious. The Life Force is the same
(Highlighting mine, to make a point).
You’re describing effects and positing that they are actually a fundamental _ **cause** _. A bit like suggesting that thunder is the cause of lightning/
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/20 "2015-09-05T22:29:20Z")
> [@halman](#):
>
> I am also including the effect noted when two or more people work together, and they produce more than they could working separately. Also on the table is the effect of people focusing their attention on something as a group, and the power of emotional thinking.
These two things are real, but don’t have anything to do with some special force. They are just teamwork and motivation.
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