# Is the Life Force A Real Force? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984 "2015-09-05T05:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/61 "2015-09-16T15:21:23Z")
> [@grude](#): > > If “I” am teleported to a habitat on a asteroid with no one else present, I would not exist? No my point is that the word I/me/you has no actual basis in reality. It’s an unchecked assumption that there is a “me” in there somewhere that is in control of things or experiencing things. The body exists, emotions exist, thoughts exist and for some reason this gives rise to the illusion of a separate “me”. If you want to get esoteric, you could view the “me” or ego as a contraction in the “life force”. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/62 "2015-09-16T15:28:59Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > No my point is that the word I/me/you has no actual basis in reality. It’s an unchecked assumption that there is a “me” in there somewhere that is in control of things or experiencing things. The body exists, emotions exist, thoughts exist and for some reason this gives rise to the illusion of a separate “me”. > > If you want to get esoteric, you could view the “me” or ego as a contraction in the “life force”. Do you mean a separate “me” as in separate from the body, or separate from other people, or…? ---
**Author:** ![Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rather_a_Vicious_Gentleman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/63 "2015-09-16T15:30:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that when conversations are driven to this level of pickiness, it just throws sand into the conversational machine. No, we cannot either prove that we are not computer programs or fictons from a book. Can we just continue this conversation with the basic assumption that we are real, _just for the purpose of this thread topic at least_, and get on with it? To paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction, “if the answers weird you out then you should cease to ask weird questions.” /slick nothing ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/64 "2015-09-16T15:37:38Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Do you mean a separate “me” as in separate from the body, or separate from other people, or…? I mean the illusion that there is a “you” somewhere that is controlling or experiencing anything, what is normally thought of as a “me”. For example most people would say “I am thinking…” but it would be more accurate to say “Thoughts are happening” since there is no entity doing the thinking, it is just appearing in the awareness or consciousness. Since you can’t stop thinking or know what the next thought is going to be, it’s pretty obvious that “you” are not doing it. It’s just something that is happening. Same goes for… well, everything. As an experiment you can try to stop thinking for a couple of minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/65 "2015-09-16T15:38:22Z")
> [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](#): > > To paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction, “if the answers weird you out then you should cease to ask weird questions.” /slick nothing You want I should take advice from a fictional character that didn’t even understand the Biblical quotes he kept spouting throughout the entire movie? No, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/66 "2015-09-16T15:46:18Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I mean the illusion that there is a “you” somewhere that is controlling or experiencing anything, what is normally thought of as a “me”. > > For example most people would say “I am thinking…” but it would be more accurate to say “Thoughts are happening” since there is no entity doing the thinking, it is just appearing in the awareness or consciousness. Since you can’t stop thinking or know what the next thought is going to be, it’s pretty obvious that “you” are not doing it. It’s just something that is happening. Same goes for… well, everything. > > As an experiment you can try to stop thinking for a couple of minutes. The human body is packed with involuntary processes that go on without your needing to start or continue them, such as breathing and thinking. While “I” cannot stop or start these processes, “I” can certainly direct them to a large degree. The body will breathe-“I’” can make it breathe faster or slower just because I want it to. The mind will think-“I” can decide what to think a lot of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/67 "2015-09-16T15:46:45Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I mean the illusion that there is a “you” somewhere that is controlling or experiencing anything, what is normally thought of as a “me”. > > For example most people would say “I am thinking…” but it would be more accurate to say “Thoughts are happening” since there is no entity doing the thinking, it is just appearing in the awareness or consciousness. Since you can’t stop thinking or know what the next thought is going to be, it’s pretty obvious that “you” are not doing it. It’s just something that is happening. Same goes for… well, everything. > > As an experiment you can try to stop thinking for a couple of minutes. Well, sure. Consciousness is a product of the brain, and it’s the brain that’s doing all the driving. We don’t have conscious access to any of that. I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial stance around here. There is an entity doing the thinking, it’s the individual human. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/68 "2015-09-16T16:24:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The human body is packed with involuntary processes that go on without your needing to start or continue them, such as breathing and thinking. While “I” cannot stop or start these processes, “I” can certainly direct them to a large degree. The body will breathe-“I’” can make it breathe faster or slower just because I want it to. The mind will think-“I” can decide what to think a lot of the time. Well if thinking is automatic and breathing is as well, what is the need of an ”I” doing it? Thinking breathing and everything else happens, and the mind has a process that goes ”this is me, this is not me” etc etc. So in effect, the ”me” is just a label that the mind sticks on certain things and not on other things. This labeling itself is of course sub-conscious until it is identified and brought into awareness. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Well, sure. Consciousness is a product of the brain, and it’s the brain that’s doing all the driving. We don’t have conscious access to any of that. I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial stance around here. > > There is an entity doing the thinking, it’s the individual human. What part is you then? The brain does its thing, consciousness does its thing… What I am saying is that the you is simply a product of imagination appearing in the consciousness. Basically, it is an idea, not a reality. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/69 "2015-09-16T16:50:57Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > What part is you then? The brain does its thing, consciousness does its thing… What I am saying is that the you is simply a product of imagination appearing in the consciousness. Basically, it is an idea, not a reality. The whole thing is me, foot to head. Not my brain, or my consciousness, the biological system that is this particular human body is me. That doesn’t make the concept of self meaningless, it just changes what the self is, from soul or mind to the entire system; and just like I don’t have conscious control over what my kidneys are doing, I don’t control what my brain is doing either. The consciousness is a slave, and the body is the master. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/70 "2015-09-16T17:00:38Z")
I’m not saying the concept of self is meaningless, I am saying that the self is a concept, not a reality. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/71 "2015-09-16T17:07:06Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I’m not saying the concept of self is meaningless, I am saying that the self is a concept, not a reality. I’d say that the self _is_ a reality, but the self is composed of the entire body, and not merely the conscious mind. After all, we evolved to reproduce, not to be able to mentally model objective reality. Thus, we are equipped with useful mental shortcuts and self-serving cognitive biases. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/72 "2015-09-16T17:33:18Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I’m not saying the concept of self is meaningless, I am saying that the self is a concept, not a reality. Who/what is conceiving the concept of the physical self if it is not dependent on the body/mind state of reality? ---
**Author:** ![Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rather_a_Vicious_Gentleman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/73 "2015-09-16T17:35:18Z")
[ill just leave this here…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics) ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/74 "2015-09-16T17:35:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Who/what is conceiving the concept of the physical self if it is not dependent on the body/mind state of reality? Like all other ideas and concepts it seems to appear in consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/75 "2015-09-16T17:42:06Z")
> [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](#): > > [ill just leave this here…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics) Why? What does your link to a wiki about “General Semantics” have to do with what is being talked about in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/76 "2015-09-16T17:54:19Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Like all other ideas and concepts it seems to appear in consciousness. What does consciousness need with a starship (read: body)? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/77 "2015-09-16T17:58:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does consciousness need with a starship (read: body)? The same thing a computer program needs with a computer-a place to work. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/78 "2015-09-16T18:13:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The same thing a computer program needs with a computer-a place to work. Well, yeah. But if I’m understanding **Stoneburg** , a physical body and mind is just a construct of a disembodies consciousness. If that’s the case, why bother with the inherent complexities introduced by physical form? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/79 "2015-09-16T18:33:35Z")
ETA:…why bother with the inherent complexities introduced by \*the illusion of the self in \*physical form? ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984/80 "2015-09-16T18:59:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does consciousness need with a starship (read: body)? It doesn’t. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > ETA:…why bother with the inherent complexities introduced by \*the illusion of the self in \*physical form? It is playing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-life-force-a-real-force/729984.md?page=5)