# Is the mob (Mafia) still a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875 "2016-05-04T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/1 "2016-05-04T11:18:09Z")
(Might be better suited for IMHO…) Just something I wonder from time to time: Does the “Mafia” still exist? Are they still active… and if so, in what form, and where? If they don’t exist, when did they stop existing? With Gotti’s arrest? Later? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/2 "2016-05-04T13:32:57Z")
Italian organized crime in the US is very much still a thing, though it’s a much smaller thing than it used to be, and less organized than it once was. The RICO Act combined with the liberalization of a lot of vice laws really ate into their resources, and they ceded a lot of control over drug trafficking to urban gangs, and (especially in New York) financial scams and fraud to newly-arrived Russian mobsters after the Cold War. The Italian mob in New York is still heavily involved in labor racketeering, cigarette smuggling, protection rackets, and the like. But it’s on a smaller scale. Every once in a while somebody still seems to [sleep with the fishes](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/mans-body-feet-encased-in-concrete-washes-ashore-in-brooklyn.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=none&state=standard&contentPlacement=1&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http:/www.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/nyregion/mans-body-feet-encased-in-concrete-washes-ashore-in-brooklyn.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=3&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link) though. The traditional crime families in Italy are still very active and still very hard to prosecute. ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/3 "2016-05-04T13:34:24Z")
There is still Italian organized crime that, at least nominally, likes to think of itself as “the Mafia.” I’ve been part of a few investigations into them for drug trafficking. Not exactly movie trope types. I’ve encountered some, unwittingly at the time, who were part of the more “traditional” flavor - I didn’t realize it until I was pointed to books about them and their families. So yes, they’re there. But they’re certainly not as influential as they were back in the day, or how Hollywood always depicted them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/4 "2016-05-04T14:12:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **friedo** : > > … and they ceded a lot of control over drug trafficking to urban gangs… I had thought that, at least at the height of organized crime, the urban gangs were something like a franchise of the Mafia, not actually a competitor. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/5 "2016-05-04T14:21:52Z")
I grew up in the South (Atlanta, GA) so the idea of the Mafia was distant, something that was a northeast thing and didn’t have any relevance in my life. By the time I started hearing about the Mafia in the news\* it was about Gotti being tried and his family being broken up, with the narrative being “this is pretty much the end of a 100-year tradition.” My experience with the Mafia is entirely through news stories and fiction and in some odd way it’s hard to believe that this existed for 100+ years (and is apparently still going on). I don’t think I’ve ever had a single person identified to me as having mob ties, or was offered untaxed cigarettes, or being warned against some kid in school because he had an Italian name. So, really, watching _The Sopranos_ was like watching an alternate universe that had nothing to do with the world I live in\*\*: “What? Paulie is openly beating up a guy in broad daylight because the guy is mowing a lawn? I’m supposed to believe this crap?” And I don’t hear about them now (except for old farts) and Mafia-related fiction has pretty much gone the way of James Gandolfini (RIP), so I was wondering if the mob still exists and, I guess going beyond the original question: 1. Were they ever as influential and devious as made out to be by both the media and the government? 2. Who has replaced the Mafia as the leaders in American organized crime\*\*\*? (That last might take us into IMHO land, which is fine.) \*And this merely a function of my age, not the newsworthiness of the mafia. \*\* And probably for 99% of the people in NYC/upper NJ. But I could be wrong. \*\*\* Please don’t answer “Monsanto” or “Microsoft/Apple” or “The Republican/Democratic Party”😉 ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/6 "2016-05-04T14:51:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I grew up in the South (Atlanta, GA) so the idea of the Mafia was distant, something that was a northeast thing and didn’t have any relevance in my life. By the time I started hearing about the Mafia in the news\* it was about Gotti being tried and his family being broken up, with the narrative being “this is pretty much the end of a 100-year tradition.” > > My experience with the Mafia is entirely through news stories and fiction and in some odd way it’s hard to believe that this existed for 100+ years (and is apparently still going on). I don’t think I’ve ever had a single person identified to me as having mob ties, or was offered untaxed cigarettes, or being warned against some kid in school because he had an Italian name. So, really, watching _The Sopranos_ was like watching an alternate universe that had nothing to do with the world I live in\*\*: “What? Paulie is openly beating up a guy in broad daylight because the guy is mowing a lawn? I’m supposed to believe this crap?” The place where you grew up is probably the major reason why you never had any first-hand or “direct” second-hand knowledge. The Mafia historically was largely confined to just a few areas: New York/New Jersey; Philadelphia; Chicago; and Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/7 "2016-05-04T15:14:24Z")
What does “urban gang” mean as different from the Mafia? Urban gangs of different ethnicities? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/8 "2016-05-04T15:17:52Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The place where you grew up is probably the major reason why you never had any first-hand or “direct” second-hand knowledge. The Mafia historically was largely confined to just a few areas: New York/New Jersey; Philadelphia; Chicago; and Las Vegas. Also New Orleans and virtually the whole state of Rhode Island. The Mafia still has a very obvious presence in the Providence, RI area while it isn’t as strong in nearby Boston as it once was (but it still exists). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/9 "2016-05-04T15:18:47Z")
“Urban” is code for “Black”. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/10 "2016-05-04T15:25:27Z")
In St. Louis the traditional organized crime families got into a war that lasted pretty much throughout the 1970s. By the time it ran out of gas, almost all the younger leaders were either dead or in jail. The elder crime bosses took the reins back for a few years, but they eventually died off. It seems the families had kept the local drug trade under fairly tight control, and when their influence waned they were quickly replaced by drug-dealing street gangs. They weren’t as tightly organized as the traditional families, and didn’t really get into things like labor unions and gambling. However, they were a lot less discriminating about who they targeted. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/11 "2016-05-04T15:58:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “Urban” is code for “Black”. It can be, but I think that in this case it mean more like “city street gang,” which can just as much be Hispanic, White, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/12 "2016-05-04T16:10:43Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It can be, but I think that in this case it mean more like “city street gang,” which can just as much be Hispanic, White, etc. According to [2011 statistics](https://www..gov/survey-analysis/demographics), the highest demographic among urban gang members is Hispanic (46% vs 35% black). Gangs have been mostly Hispanic for some time, at least going back to 1996 the percentage of gang members being Hispanic has been between 45-50%. Compare that to the 30-37% black demographic. The idea that “most” gang members are black seems inaccurate and at best outdated, it’s closer to 1/3. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/13 "2016-05-04T16:35:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “Urban” is code for “Black”. :rolleyes: Urban street gangs are not the same thing as the kind of organized crime described in the OP. They are primarily concerned with defending territory, relatively low-level crimes (drug dealing, property crimes, muggings, and pimping) and are not particularly organized over large areas. Street gangs don’t typically engage in activities like protection rackets, lotteries, labor racketeering, financial fraud, or political corruption, all of which require a more extensive organizational apparatus than they can usually muster. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/14 "2016-05-04T16:48:12Z")
The FBI has info on modern organized crime in the US. Their [web site](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/overview) says: > [@](#): > > Today, organized crime includes: > > [ul] > [li]Russian mobsters who fled to the U.S. in the wake of the Soviet Union’s collapse;[/li][li]Groups from African countries like Nigeria that engage in drug trafficking and financial scams;[/li][li]Chinese tongs, Japanese Boryokudan, and other Asian crime rings; and[/li][li]Enterprises based in Eastern European nations like Hungary and Romania.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/15 "2016-05-04T17:16:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > In St. Louis the traditional organized crime families got into a war that lasted pretty much throughout the 1970s. By the time it ran out of gas, almost all the younger leaders were either dead or in jail. The elder crime bosses took the reins back for a few years, but they eventually died off. > > It seems the families had kept the local drug trade under fairly tight control, and when their influence waned they were quickly replaced by drug-dealing street gangs. They weren’t as tightly organized as the traditional families, and didn’t really get into things like labor unions and gambling. However, they were a lot less discriminating about who they targeted. Ah yeah, the Leisure boys and car bombs! Good times! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/16 "2016-05-04T17:21:48Z")
Basically, if you’re not part of the family, there’s no way you’re going to have a clue what or how big they are. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/17 "2016-05-04T18:02:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Basically, if you’re not part of the family, there’s no way you’re going to have a clue what or how big they are. I would think that if you are a victim, you could get a good idea about how pervasive the organized crime is. For example, I have heard that in New Yor City , almost all the small shop owners used to pay protection money , or else have their place burned down. Is this still true? Surely the store owners talk among themselves, even if they don’t dare report it to the police. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/18 "2016-05-04T18:15:44Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Basically, if you’re not part of the family, there’s no way you’re going to have a clue what or how big they are. The authorities used to be fairly clueless about the size and scope of the Mafia in the old days. But with the many successful RICO prosecutions and high level folk turning state’s witness, there’s a pretty good idea of their size. OTOH, many of the newer gangs are poorly understood. One set of national organized crime groups not mentioned are the motorcycles gangs. Lots of drug dealing, especially the making and selling of meth. Their business also intersects with some white supremacy groups so there is some blending there. The US Mafia has lost a lot of control in certain areas: drugs, gambling and other vices. But in some cities they still have a lot of control over docks, unions, construction and good old waste management. More focus on mid-level crime than street level. They also are a very minor part of Las Vegas now. OTOH, they still have an extensive reach in Atlantic City. But that’s barely worth bragging about anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/19 "2016-05-04T18:50:20Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The place where you grew up is probably the major reason why you never had any first-hand or “direct” second-hand knowledge. The Mafia historically was largely confined to just a few areas: New York/New Jersey; Philadelphia; Chicago; and Las Vegas. I grew up in the northeast Bronx. Speculation about what businesses might be connected to the mob was favorite gossip. I didn’t know any Mafiosi personally, but my sister dated the son of a supposed connected guy in high school, and a low-level soldier (known as “Louie Lump-lump”) who lived in my brother’s apartment building went to prison for whacking someone. Every once in a while a body was found dumped in the neighborhood that the mob was supposed to be responsible for, or someone was whacked in mysterious circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/20 "2016-05-04T20:09:39Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Urban street gangs are not the same thing as the kind of organized crime described in the OP. They are primarily concerned with defending territory, relatively low-level crimes (drug dealing, property crimes, muggings, and pimping) and are not particularly organized over large areas. Street gangs don’t typically engage in activities like protection rackets, lotteries, labor racketeering, financial fraud, or political corruption, all of which require a more extensive organizational apparatus than they can usually muster. What does your post have to do with his response? “Urban” is very often used instead of black, and he never said that “urban gangs” were involved in rackets, lotteries, financial fraud, etc. In fact, the discussion of “urban gangs” started with drug dealing, which is something you acknowledge that they do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875.md?page=2)