# Is the mob (Mafia) still a thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875 "2016-05-04T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/21 "2016-05-04T20:32:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > According to [2011 statistics](https://www..gov/survey-analysis/demographics), the highest demographic among urban gang members is Hispanic (46% vs 35% black). Gangs have been mostly Hispanic for some time, at least going back to 1996 the percentage of gang members being Hispanic has been between 45-50%. Compare that to the 30-37% black demographic. The idea that “most” gang members are black seems inaccurate and at best outdated, it’s closer to 1/3. Sorry my link got mangled somehow: > **[National Youth Gang Survey Analysis: Demographics](https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/demographics)** > > The NGC conducted an annual survey of law enforcement agencies to assess the extent of gang problems. This page provides data on gang member demographics. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/22 "2016-05-04T21:15:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I > 2. Who has replaced the Mafia as the leaders in American organized crime\*\*\*? > > (That last might take us into IMHO land, which is fine.) > > \*\*\* Please don’t answer “Monsanto” or “Microsoft/Apple” or “The Republican/Democratic Party”😉 Can we say Wall Street/Stock Markets/Big Banks? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/23 "2016-05-04T21:17:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I grew up in the northeast Bronx. Speculation about what businesses might be connected to the mob was favorite gossip. I didn’t know any Mafiosi personally, but my sister dated the son of a supposed connected guy in high school, and a low-level soldier (known as “Louie Lump-lump”) who lived in my brother’s apartment building went to prison for whacking someone. Every once in a while a body was found dumped in the neighborhood that the mob was supposed to be responsible for, or someone was whacked in mysterious circumstances. What clues indicated mob connections? What did the businesses get out of it? What kind of benefits did the mob get from such connections aside from cash fees? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/24 "2016-05-04T21:29:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It can be, but I think that in this case it mean more like “city street gang,” which can just as much be Hispanic, White, etc. Also, I’ve never heard of “suburban gangs”. 🙂 If it’s a gang and it’s in a city, it’s an “urban gang”, regardless of skin color. In Frankfurt, it was the Turks. Here in Portland, it’s mostly Hispanic and Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/25 "2016-05-04T21:36:54Z")
OK, “street gangs” could be hispanic. But “Urban gangs” means black. It doesn’t matter that there are gangs that operate in cities that aren’t black, in today’s context “urban” is a near-synonym for black. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/26 "2016-05-04T21:43:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Just something I wonder from time to time: Does the “Mafia” still exist? Are they still active… and if so, in what form, and where? Since the OP doesn’t restrict to the US, it should be noted that in Sicily they are still enough of a presence that there is conspicuous graffiti protesting against them. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/27 "2016-05-04T22:28:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > OK, “street gangs” could be hispanic. But “Urban gangs” means black. It doesn’t matter that there are gangs that operate in cities that aren’t black, in today’s context “urban” is a near-synonym for black. No it isn’t. It means gangs of any race or ethnicity in cities, nothing more. Hispanic gangs in Chicago are most definitely also “urban gangs” as well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/28 "2016-05-04T22:36:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But “Urban gangs” means black. It doesn’t matter that there are gangs that operate in cities that aren’t black, in today’s context “urban” is a near-synonym for black. That’s only true of “urban contemporary” music. In most other contexts urban just means urban. Can you provide a cite that “urban gangs” is meant to mean black to the exclusion of Hispanic or other gangs? Because in New York I would assume it meant any gang exclusive of ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/29 "2016-05-04T23:26:21Z")
I guess folks can choose to take offense at whatever trips their triggers. “Urban” means “city”. Urban planning is just that, as is urban development. I refuse to have to censor every word I say because someone arbitrarily decides that it’s now not politically correct. Context is everything. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/30 "2016-05-04T23:40:44Z")
Sure, context is everything. Which is why “black” and “white” are acceptable race names, but “yellow” and “red” aren’t. It has nothing to do with logic or consistency. I’m just saying, if you talk about “urban” in the context of gangs, or music, or “youths” it usually means “black”. Or rather, a lot of people are going to see “urban” and assume it means “black”. What the user means by the term and how different people understand the term can be two different things. I honestly don’t think it’s a dog-whistle. You don’t have to avoid the word urban in all contexts for fear people will misunderstand. The same word can mean different things in different contexts. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/31 "2016-05-04T23:45:18Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Sure, context is everything. Which is why “black” and “white” are acceptable race names, but “yellow” and “red” aren’t. It has nothing to do with logic or consistency. > > I’m just saying, if you talk about “urban” in the context of gangs, or music, or “youths” it usually means “black”. Or rather, a lot of people are going to see “urban” and assume it means “black”. What the user means by the term and how different people understand the term can be two different things. > > I honestly don’t think it’s a dog-whistle. You don’t have to avoid the word urban in all contexts for fear people will misunderstand. The same word can mean different things in different contexts. You may want to start an honest poll in IMHO to see if your point holds. I don’t think of the term “urban gang” that way at all. If anything, I expect organized black gangs to have actual names like Crips and Bloods that are even easier to refer to. Urban gangs can refer to any gangs, no matter how organized, within an urban environment. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/32 "2016-05-04T23:52:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Sure, context is everything. Which is why “black” and “white” are acceptable race names, but “yellow” and “red” aren’t. It has nothing to do with logic or consistency. > > I’m just saying, if you talk about “urban” in the context of gangs, or music, or “youths” it usually means “black”. Or rather, a lot of people are going to see “urban” and assume it means “black”. What the user means by the term and how different people understand the term can be two different things. > > I honestly don’t think it’s a dog-whistle. You don’t have to avoid the word urban in all contexts for fear people will misunderstand. The same word can mean different things in different contexts. I really don’t think that’s what it means in **friedo** ’s context. He’ll have to come back to tell us, but I am well aware of when “urban” is being used as a wink-wink-nudge-nudge-don’t-want-to-say-black sort of manner, and I don’t think this is one of those instances. If somebody says “urban gang” to me, as a Chicagoan, I think they are meaning street gangs in general, which are Hispanic, black, Asian, white, and even some Middle Eastern. Basically, of pretty much any ethnicity that lives in the city. But that’s as opposed to organized “mafia” type gangs, which are not only capital M mafia (the Outfit, as it’s known here) but also of various Eastern European, Asian, and other ethnicities. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/33 "2016-05-05T02:04:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I’m just saying, if you talk about “urban” in the context of gangs, or music, or “youths” it usually means “black”. Or rather, a lot of people are going to see “urban” and assume it means “black”. What the user means by the term and how different people understand the term can be two different things. I think you’re going to have to provide a cite for that. It’s certainly not my perception, coming from the largest urban area in the US and where gangs are of many ethnicities. Quite frankly, it would be absurd to refer to the “urban gangs of New York” if you just meant black gangs. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/34 "2016-05-05T04:11:50Z")
I guess my original question was trying to get at why the Mafia families (i.e., the urban gangs of Sicilian origin) are considered something other than “urban gangs.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/35 "2016-05-05T04:21:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I guess my original question was trying to get at why the Mafia families (i.e., the urban gangs of Sicilian origin) are considered something other than “urban gangs.” **friedo’s** posts have explained it pretty well. They engage in broader and more organized types of crime than a typical neighborhood gang. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/36 "2016-05-05T05:41:27Z")
Why are we only talking about the US? The mafia is still very much a thing in Sicily where they still have a lot of power. > **[Sicilian mafia throws lavish Godfather-style 100th birthday party](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sicilian-mafia-boss-infuriates-local-mayor-by-throwing-lavish-godfatherstyle-100th-birthday-party-a6807321.html)** > > Procopio Di Maggio invited scores of family and friends to a banquet and organised a public fireworks display in the mafia-infested town of Cinisi ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/37 "2016-05-05T06:30:37Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Italian organized crime in the US is very much still a thing And you of all people should know, having been whacked by the mob on a fishing trip back in 1959. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875/38 "2016-05-05T06:46:20Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Urban street gangs are not the same thing as the kind of organized crime described in the OP. They are primarily concerned with defending territory, relatively low-level crimes (drug dealing, property crimes, muggings, and pimping) and are not particularly organized over large areas. Street gangs don’t typically engage in activities like protection rackets, lotteries, labor racketeering, financial fraud, or political corruption, all of which require a more extensive organizational apparatus than they can usually muster. 18th St. and MS-13 are both transnational, and except for political corruption and labor racketeering, I believe they do those other things. Although in popular discourse the term _gang_ is usually used to somehow differentiate much of organized crime of today from what was previously called “the mob,” in many ways they’re the same: [QUOTE=FBI’s 2013 National Gang Report] Gangs continue to diversify their criminal activities. Survey results reveal gang involvement in financial crimes to include: credit card fraud, insurance fraud, mortgage fraud, tax fraud, counterfeiting, fencing stolen goods, identity theft, and money laundering. Law enforcement officials in multiple jurisdictions nationwide report that gangs direct recruitment efforts toward members who possess skills and knowledge necessary to carry out financial crimes. Survey respondents report gang involvement in credit card fraud (124 jurisdictions), mortgage fraud (48 jurisdictions), counterfeiting (163 jurisdictions), fencing (240 jurisdictions), identity theft (187 jurisdictions), and money laundering (184 jurisdictions). Survey respondents in 35 jurisdictions and 18 states, including Arizona, California, Florida, Michigan, New York, Texas, and Virginia report that gangs commit counterfeiting, bank fraud, check fraud, identity theft, fencing, and money laundering to generate a low-risk source of income. . . . [/quote] And while it’s not exactly political racketeering, they do infiltrate public agencies: [QUOTE=FBI’s 2013 National Gang Report] Street gangs, prison gangs, and OMGs all have members and associates who have either gained or attempted to gain employment with law enforcement agencies, correctional facilities, and judiciary/courts across the country. Gang members and associates, who successfully gained employment in one of the aforementioned branches, typically seek to acquire training, and access to weapons and sensitive information in order to impede gang investigations. The most common form of access occurs through non-sworn civilian positions in law enforcement. Correctional facilities are particularly vulnerable to infiltration, as corrections officers are highly susceptible targets for prison gang members who solicit assistance in the commission of crimes. • According to April 2013 open source reporting, 13 female correctional officers in Maryland were indicted on federal racketeering charges for aiding in the criminal operations of the BGF prison gang members who were incarcerated in a Baltimore County jail. At least one officer reportedly assisted gang leaders by smuggling cell phones, alcohol, prescription pills, and other contraband into the facility. Two other officers were tattooed with the name of a BGF leader and four others were impregnated by one gang member. • In August 2012, open source reporting indicated a federal court employee in Los Angeles County, California, was charged for providing defendants, who were members of the Armenian Power gang, with confidential court files that contained sealed indictments. [/quote] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-mob-mafia-still-a-thing/753875.md?page=1)