# Is the music in Troy homage or theft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456 "2004-05-16T18:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/1 "2004-05-16T18:38:49Z")
Saw **Troy** last night, which addressed the age-old question, “how much Brad Pitt naked ass can we put on the screen?”, and answered it with “about 3 hours, which is far too much, especially for us hetero males who came in expecting to see a war movie”. Major musical themes in the movie were lifted directly from **Enemy at the Gates** (the stabbing, haunting minor-second thing), **Gladiator** (the lilting voice as the hand rides over the grain), and **Laurence of Arabia** (part of the main theme). As it turns out, I consider those three movies to be particularly excellent, and they all had similarities with **Troy** (war movie, and/or epic, and/or love amidst raging battles, etc.). I can’t help but think that perhaps these musical themes were replicated out of respect. Or maybe they were flat-out stolen. Anyone know more? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/2 "2004-05-16T19:45:06Z")
Well, James Horner did the music and he also did _Enemy at the Gates_, so that explains that. I figured that they got the Lisa Gerrard-style singing from _Gladiator_ but couldn’t be sure. I doubt that anyone’s going to admit to swiping, especially someone as big as Horner, but then again [it looks like](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000035/) he did video games and a comic book adaptation cartoon, so who knows. You find all sorts of odd things on commentary tracks these days. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/3 "2004-05-16T21:47:35Z")
Did you like the movie? Then it’s an homage. If you didn’t like it, it’s theft. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/4 "2004-05-16T23:16:24Z")
Let’s just say Horner gets “inspired” a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/5 "2004-05-17T00:01:20Z")
> [@Chairman Pow](#): > > I doubt that anyone’s going to admit to swiping, especially someone as big as Horner, Ever notice how much an ‘r’ and an ‘n’ look like an ‘m’? I read that comment very differently to how it was inteneded. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/6 "2004-05-17T07:13:41Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > **Enemy at the Gates** \ **Gladiator** \, and **Laurence of Arabia** \ . As it turns out, I consider those three movies to be particularly excellent, and they all had similarities with **Troy** But only one of them had Rachel Weisz’ bare ass. (To date, my favorite instance of nudity on film. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/7 "2004-05-17T08:20:57Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Let’s just say Horner gets “inspired” a lot. Indeed. He’s gotten better in recent years and some of his work is gorgeous (a passage of _Brainstorm_ is achingly beautiful and I’ve always loved his score for _The Devil’s Own_), but he’s done his fair share of “borrowing.” Though, to be fair, the score to _Brainstorm_ has a beautiful choral element, so it isn’t as if he’s never done that before. (I haven’t heard the score to _Troy_ so I don’t know if it resembles in any way his score to _Brainstorm_.) Oh, by the way, _Laurence of Arabia_ was composed by Maurice Jarre, and I have to say that I’ve never heard Horner “borrow” from Jarre. Though this could be his first. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/8 "2004-05-17T14:55:11Z")
There’s actually an interesting story behind this score. [Horner’s ‘Troy’ written at record speed, recorded with mammoth orchestra](http://www.musicfromthemovies.com/article.asp?ID=316) > [@](#): > > James Horner managed to compose 120 minutes of music in thirteen days and had another twelve days to record the score. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/9 "2004-05-17T15:04:54Z")
No wonder it sounds so much like _Willow_! Haven’t seen it, but was watching some Troy thing on the Discovery Channel yesterday where they showed some snippets from the movie. Everytime I heard the music, I thought of _Willow_. Figgered it was Horner, but it’s good to have it confirmed. Snicks ---
**Author:** ![JasonG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@JasonG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasonG)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/10 "2004-05-18T00:54:46Z")
I was just last night telling my filmgoing companions that the main title sounded familiar. Personally (and no one else has mentioned it so I may be wrong), the main theme sounded to me like **Exodus** , and there were times I heard the opening (and only good part) of **Stargate**. Perhaps Horner’s being thematic – both films took place in the desert… ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/11 "2004-05-18T17:10:44Z")
Thanks, all. Interesting links, especially the story of the original soundtrack being discarded, and the new one written and recorded so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/12 "2004-05-18T21:30:51Z")
Heh whatever. Hans Zimmer (Gladiator, The Rock, Days of Thunder, Pearl Harbor, every action movie) only has three musical themes - :mad: :eek: ☹ But it is the perfect music when you and your friends are out walking in slow-motion as a squadron of fighters roars overhead and mothers tearfully clench their American flag waving children. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/13 "2004-05-18T21:46:57Z")
Horner’s greatest “vicitim” is himself. 60% of the _Beautiful Mind_ soundtrack is a pleasant workover of the motif from the Main Titles from _Sneakers_. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/14 "2004-05-19T03:27:37Z")
Braveheart and Titanic also sound similar in places. Apparently the original score was only discarded due to a single preview screening’s results, which I think is absurd, especially so late in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/15 "2004-05-19T14:37:03Z")
Actually \*\*Enemy at the Gates \*\* borrows heavily from **Star Trek II The Wrath of Kahn**. Those trumpets with their snarling theme now appear in all three movies. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/16 "2004-05-19T15:41:27Z")
Slightly off-topic, but I love being able to identify a film’s composer based on recognizing similarities to other works. I mentally award myself lifetime bonus points for doing this. Examples: watching **North by Northwest** , and realizing that this sounds just like something from **Jason and the Argonauts**. Ding! Bernard Herrmann did both, which I hadn’t realized until then. Triple bonus: recognizing that a theme from the opening credits of **Gambit** (romantic caper film with Michael Caine & Shirley MacLaine) sounded just like a theme from **Lawrence of Arabia**. Maurice Jarre. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/17 "2004-05-19T18:51:59Z")
Oh yes. It often isn’t that difficult to identify a particular composer’s style from the score. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but I usually can identify a certain amount of the “big name” composers (Morricone, Goldsmith, Williams, Jarre, Horner, Zimmer, Newman, etc. etc.) after listening to a few passages of the score in a movie. What really puzzles some people is when I can identify the movie without seeing the screen or hearing any dialog. I can do this if I know the score really well. So I’ll be away from the TV but can hear the sound and I’ll say, “That’s _Hoosiers_!” and those around me will say, “There’s NO WAY you can know that!” But yeah, you can, if you know the soundtrack well enough. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/18 "2004-05-21T14:27:32Z")
You can listen to some of the original score on the composer’s web page: [http://www.gabrielyared.com/](http://www.gabrielyared.com/) So crazy they would throw out a fully complete and recorded scores. ---
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/19 "2004-05-21T15:55:50Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Braveheart and Titanic also sound similar in places. I got the major Braveheart vibe too (also done by Horner, gee whiz). Some parts of the music almost sounded like bagpipes. Of course, the whole “Reunion of Braveheart” casting helped lend a sense…“Hamish! I mean, Menelaus! Oh screw it, you’re still a bug dumb ox!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456/20 "2004-05-21T22:51:57Z")
I found myself less than impressed with the score in _Troy_. Maybe Horner was striving for a barbaric, atonal sound to compliment the setting, but it just came off to me as loud, overly-dissinant, and thoroughly un-memorable. I’ll have to give Yared’s alternate score a listen – I tend to like his style better than Horner’s. As far as recognizing composers’ styles, I was quite certain on the first viewing of the movie that the score for _Pirates of the Carribbean_ was by Hans Zimmer, as it sounded as if it were lifted right out of _Gladiator_. I was surprised to see in the closing credits that someone else was listed as the composer. But I was vindicated after all – Hans Zimmer was the producer for the score. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-music-in-troy-homage-or-theft/245456.md?page=2)