# Is the news media out to Gore Dean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618 "2004-01-15T18:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/21 "2004-01-16T18:39:24Z")
**puddlegum** : I think you’re right about the lazy aspect of the press. But I had to laugh about what you said re: McCain. Maybe he used his stereotype to his advantage because it was a **favorable** stereotype. Not many candidates get that option. And then there was Dan Quayle… ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/22 "2004-01-16T18:50:08Z")
I think that as Dean goes on people are going to be catching him in more contradictions than he can explain his way out of. The Burlington Free Press (a Vermont paper) ran two stories back-to-back that contradicted each other. It was right after Sadam had been captured and one had him saying that if he were the President Sadam wouldn’t have been in custody at all and the other saying that he thinks that Sadam should be put to the death penalty. Huh? 😕 Despite being a consevative I would like to see a change. If a Dem gets the nod that will represent my ideas, then I’ll vote for him. Problem being that I don’t know what the hell Dean is saying to garner support and what he is saying because he means it. He’s going to have to toe a line at some point. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/23 "2004-01-16T19:54:10Z")
That first one hasn’t made the national spotlight at all, as you’d certainly expect. Got a link? ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/24 "2004-01-16T20:32:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > These stereotypes are often unfair. Thus you get… McCain-Straight Talker… Well, it was McCain himself who billed himself as a straight talker. Whether or not he was is another issue, but **John Mace** is right: “straight talker” isn’t exactly a negative stereotype. However, some might recall the media in 1999 hanging another label on Senator McCain: “angry.” Is “angry” the new code for “straight talker”? If so, then I definitely want an angry president. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/25 "2004-01-16T21:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Is “angry” the new code for “straight talker”? It seems to be code for “occasionally shows frustration at an inane question or statement”. And I agree that either interpretation is something you want in a President. Dean is certainly being “Gored” but he’d better get used to it. “The Media” will seem like a fan club once the campaign starts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/26 "2004-01-17T06:24:47Z")
The Center for Media Public Affairs says that the networks are treating Dean quite differently: about 49% of stories about him are positive, versus 78% for his rivals in total. You do treat the front-runner differently in an election or primary race, so I can’t say if that’s unusual compared to past races. (I’m also very skeptical of people who ‘analyze the media’ by counting quotes and references, but there you go.) ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/27 "2004-01-17T15:34:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Center for Media Public Affairs says that the networks are treating Dean quite differently: about 49% of stories about him are positive, versus 78% for his rivals in total. You do treat the front-runner differently in an election or primary race, so I can’t say if that’s unusual compared to past races. (I’m also very skeptical of people who ‘analyze the media’ by counting quotes and references, but there you go.) I’ve always heard this, too, and I’d certainly say it’s applied in the past. However, if this is a constant, then why is George W. Bush still being treated so very nicely by the media? He’s definitely the front runner in this race, according to most polls. A lot can change in the next ten months, sure, but right now, it’s safe to say Bush is leading. It’s a weak lead, I believe, but it’s a lead all the same. So where’s the scrutiny of Bush? Bill Clinton got plenty of scrutiny in 1996, and Bush Senior got plenty of scrutiny in 1992. Why is this incumbent different? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c37758/32.png) [@Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Owes_Bess)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/28 "2004-01-18T12:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _From Revtim_ > Remember when that reporter stumped W asking him who was leader of some country? That should have immediately disqualified a candidate for the post of President, but everyone was like “aw shucks, he’s a regular dumbass guy like me! Cool!”. Here’s another quote: > [@](#): > > NYE: In Iran? > > DEAN: Iran is a more complex problem because the problem support as clearly verifiable as it is in North Korea. Also, we have less-fewer levers much the key, I believe, to Iran is pressure through the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is supplying much of the equipment that Iran, I believe, most likely is using to set itself along the path of developing nuclear weapons. We need to use that leverage with the Soviet Union and it may require us to buying the equipment the Soviet Union was ultimately going to sell to Iran to prevent Iran from them developing nuclear weapons. That is also a country that must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons much the key to all this is foresight. Let’s act now so we don’t have to have a confrontation which may result in force, which would be very disastrous in the case of North Korea and might be disastrous in the case of Iran." [LINK](http://www.coldfury.com/Sasha/archives/004470.html) On the Soviet Union issue, how fit does that make Howard Dean for the post of potus? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/29 "2004-01-18T14:36:07Z")
**Alan** , do you think that Dean truly believes that there is still a Soviet Union? If he does, then I’d agree he’s too stupid to be POTUS. But my guess is that this is a simple speaking error, and he did manage to notice the fall of the Soviet Union. Do you believe that Bush really knew the leader he was quizzed about, but simply made some kind of speaking error? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/30 "2004-01-18T16:09:35Z")
> [@Chance the Gardener](#): > > A lot can change in the next ten months, sure, but right now, it’s safe to say Bush is leading. It’s a weak lead, I believe, but it’s a lead all the same. So where’s the scrutiny of Bush? Bill Clinton got plenty of scrutiny in 1996, and Bush Senior got plenty of scrutiny in 1992. Why is this incumbent different? Follow the money. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/31 "2004-01-18T16:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _HPL said:_ > Or they just felt that not knowing a bit of trivia wasn’t important. How many people really know the names of every single world leader off the top of their head? (and I guess I’m tangentially replying to **Alan** ’s defense of it as well) nitpick: Well the reporter stumped him on the name of the leader of Pakistan, who had just come to power in a military coup within the last 2 months(of the question). This, plus it’s nuclear status and how early in his admin that Pakistan became important, makes me hard pressed to call it “trivia”. It doesn’t matter how many other people could have named him, they’re not trying out for the job. But hey, why study when you can surround yourself with smart tutors. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/32 "2004-01-18T18:41:46Z")
Well, to sum up how I feel about this issue of what Bush knows and doesn’t know (and this quote has been attributed to multiple people so I won’t try to give attribution): It’s not what he doesn’t know that worries me; It’s what he does know that just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/33 "2004-01-18T19:05:41Z")
[The Public Editor of The New York Times responds to criticisms from Dean supporters about coverage.](http://nytimes.com/2004/01/18/weekinreview/18bott.html) > [@](#): > > Jodi Wilgoren has been the lead Times correspondent on Howard Dean’s campaign plane since last summer. She was among the first national reporters to recognize the propulsive force of the Dean movement, in July, when she wrote a front-page article studded with phrases describing how the candidate ''burst from his obscurity to rank among the top contenders" and his ''stunning surge" in the fund-raising race; a subhead read, ''Standing Up for His Beliefs." People in the Dean campaign believe she’s an excellent reporter. I’ve never met her, but as a faithful reader I think so, too. > > But judging by my e-mail and my Web surfing (which included a stop at a blog called ''The Wilgoren Watch"), she has a lot of detractors. Not Gephardtians angry about what they perceive as The Times’s obsession with their candidate’s fund-raising difficulties. Not Kucinichers who believe that The Times ''has for many months and from very early on been a heavy promoter of Dr. Dean; I don’t think too many people would dispute that," as the congressman’s press secretary, David Swanson, told my associate Arthur Bovino. No, Wilgoren seems to have become the face on the dartboard for Dean supporters. An interesting read. He found a few examples, but nothing overwhelmingly biased, in their coverage. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/34 "2004-01-20T17:44:24Z")
> [@Chance the Gardener](#): > > Well, it was McCain himself who billed himself as a straight talker. Whether or not he was is another issue, but **John Mace** is right: “straight talker” isn’t exactly a negative stereotype. However, some might recall the media in 1999 hanging another label on Senator McCain: “angry.” I think that the stereotype of McCain was inaccurate but not negative. The genius of the McCain campaign was to understand the media was going to stereotype him and then to help craft that stereotype so as to use it to his advantage. Any candidate who thinks that the press is going to portray serious policy issues or nuanced, fair depictions of a candidate is going to be dissapointed. Edwards is the only candidate who seems to understand this so far this time. He has helped craft his stereotype - optimistic moderate and so far it has served him very well. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618/35 "2004-01-20T18:38:00Z")
After last night’s performance, does anybody still believe that “Angry Dean” is a media creation? It looks like good and honest reporting now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-news-media-out-to-gore-dean/224618.md?page=1)