# Is the number of immigrants who came through Ellis Island overrated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800 "2013-06-24T16:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/1 "2013-06-24T16:47:27Z")
According to Wikipedia, about 12 million immigrants were processed in Ellis Island from 1892 to 1954. A random observation makes me wonder if all these folks actually were immigrants (i. e. people wishing to settle in the United States). [http://www.ellisisland.org](http://www.ellisisland.org) provides a database of passenger records which allows you to look up the name of individuals and find out if at one point they entered the United States through Ellis Island. It appears to me that this database also includes those who just visited the United States, but who actually weren’t immigrants. I looked up the name of a German writer who visited the United States in 1908, and sure enough, he shows up in the records. But it is a fact that this man only visited the country, he returned to Europe and never had any intention to emigrate to the US. I wonder if the figure of 12 million immigrants does indeed include a significant number of persons who were actually only visitors. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/2 "2013-06-24T16:52:57Z")
Intercontinental tourism wasn’t a big thing when crossing the ocean took weeks. Some people traveled, of course, for business, politics, and other reasons. But the number of people who passed through Ellis Island, looked around the US, and then went home is vanishingly small. If anything, immigration numbers are understated. Lots of people were never recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/3 "2013-06-24T17:35:50Z")
Well, the ships of that era also catered to travellers who could afford luxury accommodations (think Titanic). The writer I was referring to and his wife who accompanied him on his trip were independently wealthy. I was always under the impression that this clientele wasn’t even required to go through the standard immigration procedure (like the tired and the poor seeking to start a new life) once they left the ship. But apparently, that wasn’t always the case. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/4 "2013-06-24T17:48:31Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > But the number of people who passed through Ellis Island, looked around the US, and then went home is vanishingly small. On the contrary, a significant number of immigrants came to America with the intention of working here for a while, earning some money, and then returning to their home country. Overall, about a third of the immigrants who came to America eventually left. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/5 "2013-06-24T18:13:48Z")
Did US Citizens or people who had previously been accepted as immigrants to the US have to go through Ellis Island upon returning? For example, if J. Random American took a trip to France in 1920 and came back by boat, would he have gone through a customs/immigration check _at Ellis Island_ or were Americans normally diverted to another processing center or system? The last time I traveled internationally there was one line at the US checkpoint coming back and everyone had to go through it. I declared that I was a US Citizen and showed my US passport and was processed through very quickly, but it wasn’t like there was a separate line just for non-citizens or non-citizen immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/6 "2013-06-24T18:17:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On the contrary, a significant number of immigrants came to America with the intention of working here for a while, earning some money, and then returning to their home country. Overall, about a third of the immigrants who came to America eventually left. I 'd need to see a cite on that; at first glance it seems an overly large proportion. On another note, I’m pretty sure a lot of immigrants also entered thru San Francisco, Boston and New Orleans. Also note that a large amount of immigrants came by force from Africa and didn’t have a chance to go back. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/7 "2013-06-24T18:42:48Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I 'd need to see a cite on that; at first glance it seems an overly large proportion. That’s the [accepted estimate](http://www.genealogy.com/96_donna.html). As seen in that article it varied considerably from country to country. > [@](#): > > On another note, I’m pretty sure a lot of immigrants also entered thru San Francisco, Boston and New Orleans. Also note that a large amount of immigrants came by force from Africa and didn’t have a chance to go back. The import of slaves was banned in 1808. Even though some continued to be smuggled in, the numbers were relatively small. The late 19th/early 20th century is a wholly different time period. Immigration is also considered to be separate from the slave trade. It was almost entirely from Europe, especially after Chinese and Japanese immigration was essentially cut to nothing in the late 19th century. There were many ports, but Ellis Island dwarfs them all. It is true that the numbers from Ellis Island are only a fraction of immigration even in that time period. [They understate rather than overstate the issue.](http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp) > [@](#): > > While most immigrants entered the United States through New York Harbor (the most popular destination of steamship companies), others sailed into many ports such as Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, San Francisco and Savannah, Miami, and New Orleans. The great steamship companies like White Star, Red Star, Cunard and Hamburg-America played a significant role in the history of Ellis Island and immigration in general. First and second class passengers who arrived in New York Harbor were not required to undergo the inspection process at Ellis Island. Instead, these passengers underwent a cursory inspection aboard ship; the theory being that if a person could afford to purchase a first or second class ticket, they were less likely to become a public charge in America due to medical or legal reasons. The Federal government felt that these more affluent passengers would not end up in institutions, hospitals or become a burden to the state. However, first and second class passengers were sent to Ellis Island for further inspection if they were sick or had legal problems. Possibly the writer mentioned in the OP had one of the problems mentioned. For most purposes Ellis Island is a large enough fraction that you can talk about it and immigration synonymously. If you need to go beyond that, the subject becomes very large and complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/8 "2013-06-24T18:43:37Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Did US Citizens or people who had previously been accepted as immigrants to the US have to go through Ellis Island upon returning? For example, if J. Random American took a trip to France in 1920 and came back by boat, would he have gone through a customs/immigration check _at Ellis Island_ or were Americans normally diverted to another processing center or system? The last time I traveled internationally there was one line at the US checkpoint coming back and everyone had to go through it. I declared that I was a US Citizen and showed my US passport and was processed through very quickly, but it wasn’t like there was a separate line just for non-citizens or non-citizen immigrants. I take it that this must have been a small airport. I have (not being a US citizen) entered the US through JFK, Newark, Atlanta and Las Vegas in the past, and all these airports had separate lines for US citizens and foreigners (and I believe they even made a distinction between visa holders and travellers taking advantage of the visa waiver program). ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/9 "2013-06-24T18:48:02Z")
My maternal grandparents were very proud of the fact that they didn’t have to come through Ellis Island with the third class passengers. I didn’t see much difference, but it was better than a story about wearing an onion on your belt, so I just nodded when they told it. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/10 "2013-06-24T19:14:07Z")
I’ve read that a lost of Irish immigrants traveling to America did so through Canada. There was a quirk in ticket prices that allowed you to buy a ticket to Montreal or Halifax for about a quarter of what a ticket to New York or Boston cost. So Irish immigrants would cross the ocean to Canada and then arrange overland travel to America. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/11 "2013-06-24T20:04:03Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I 'd need to see a cite on that; at first glance it seems an overly large proportion. > > On another note, I’m pretty sure a lot of immigrants also entered thru San Francisco, Boston and New Orleans. Also note that a large amount of immigrants came by force from Africa and didn’t have a chance to go back. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve read that a lost of Irish immigrants traveling to America did so through Canada. There was a quirk in ticket prices that allowed you to buy a ticket to Montreal or Halifax for about a quarter of what a ticket to New York or Boston cost. So Irish immigrants would cross the ocean to Canada and then arrange overland travel to America. There were a great many [entry points](http://www.genesearch.com/ports.html) to the US. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/12 "2013-06-24T20:17:29Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I 'd need to see a cite on that; at first glance it seems an overly large proportion. > > On another note, I’m pretty sure a lot of immigrants also entered thru San Francisco, Boston and New Orleans. Also note that a large amount of immigrants came by force from Africa and didn’t have a chance to go back. There is a museum at the immigration station on Angel Island, in San Francisco Bay. That’s where a lot of Asian Immigrants went through procedures very similar to those at Ellis Island, though on a smaller scale. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/13 "2013-06-24T20:35:56Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Well, the ships of that era also catered to travellers who could afford luxury accommodations (think Titanic). > > The writer I was referring to and his wife who accompanied him on his trip were independently wealthy. I was always under the impression that this clientele wasn’t even required to go through the standard immigration procedure (like the tired and the poor seeking to start a new life) once they left the ship. But apparently, that wasn’t always the case. My grandparents went through 3 times and my dad once, as US citizens - they did touristy trips to Europe. I did notice that his trip over and back on the Queen Mary when she was a[troopship](http://www.ww2troopships.com/ships/q/queenmary/) wasn’t listed in the Ellis Island records 😛 ---
**Author:** ![sideshowkar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@sideshowkar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sideshowkar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/14 "2013-06-25T19:41:20Z")
My great-grandmother and her sisters were born in the US, went to visit relatives Lithuania for several months, then returned through Ellis Island. On the manifest, it shows them as US citizens. Her uncle brought them home. A search for him has him coming through several times. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/15 "2013-06-25T19:50:15Z")
Where could one find records of first and second class passengers who immigrated? Do these records (still) exists? I’ve searched for my great grandmother and grandfather through the Ellis Island Foundation, but couldn’t find a definite match. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/16 "2013-06-25T19:52:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On the contrary, a significant number of immigrants came to America with the intention of working here for a while, earning some money, and then returning to their home country. Overall, about a third of the immigrants who came to America eventually left. My Great Grandmother and Grandfather met in this country, went back to Poland, got married and came back, so returning to the old country after a few years (whether temporarily or permanently) did happen. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-number-of-immigrants-who-came-through-ellis-island-overrated/661800/17 "2013-06-25T20:02:43Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > …Also note that a large amount of immigrants came by force from Africa and didn’t have a chance to go back. This is cute. It’s also a tendentious political way with words. Nothing new or necessarily wrong in that, but has fuck-all to do with OP or this thread as it currently stands.