# Is the Obama Administration effectively over, even if he wins and Dems retake the House in 2012? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665 "2010-11-06T03:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/81 "2010-11-10T01:11:39Z")
**SA** , if your position is that the evidence suggests that about half the country doesn’t like the bill, and the other half likes it, then you’re correct. But a more [accurate statement](http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/8120.cfm) would be, “Americans remain divided about what lawmakers should do, with 21 percent of the public favoring expansion of the health reform law, 19 percent wanting to leave it as is, a quarter wanting to repeal parts of the law, and 24 percent wanting the entire law repealed.” But what you said is “If there’s one thing the recent election showed, it’s that people are very unhappy at having this health care bill shoved down their throats.” The problem with that statement is that the election didn’t show that because people didn’t vote for or against any particular policy, as you acknowledge. And your use of the term “people” in the context of a recent election showing something is a bit misleading, since it is only a minority of people who feel that way. The truth, of course, is that the issue is tremendously complicated. Most people agree with the goals of the plan, and there is much disagreement about to what degree its unintended consequences will outweigh its benefits. A very large plurality of people want the bill kept and reformed. There is very little empirical support for the notion that any group other than hardcore Republicans is “very unhappy at having this health care bill shoved down their throats.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/82 "2010-11-10T01:37:32Z")
The Wikipedia article on the Kaiser Family Foundation gives me a certain amount of pause as to it’s impartiality. To wit: > [@](#): > > KFF has progressed from funding polls through Harvard-Washington Post “partnerships,” to giving reporters in health care awards, to funding reporters with “fellowships,” and to finally hiring many of them full time to run the Kaiser Health News. > [@](#): > > And the legitamacy of KHN was and is to be assumed because the reporters were coming from former jobs at national newspapers > [@](#): > > The implication of a any poll involving KFF, Harvard University, and the Washington Post would be “trust” as if they came together in neutrality rather than the article being a KFF pay-for-view. Also, unmentioned is the permanently funded professor chairmanships at UC Berkeley, Stanford University, Harvard University, and Johns Hopkins University. > [@](#): > > One blog responder to this was a KHN editor - Mr. Fairhall - who countered a comment that the KHN reporters seemed to lean Democratic in polotical donations - by saying that the Kaiser Health News was, in fact, “an editorially independent part of KFF.” Notice that Mr. Fairhall does not deny that the KHN reporters seem to lean Democratic in political donations, he merely claims that it is an “editorially independent” part of KFF. And so on and so on. The article is [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Family_Foundation) if anyone want to read it. Still, there is a lot of truth in what you say. The issues were complex and interwoven. This is why I said I don’t put a lot of faith in exit polls. Oftentimes people don’t know exactly why they’re voting a certain way, it’s a conglomeration of things. But over the course of the runup to the election I’ve read many times in even left wing news sites that many of the nation’s electorate resent very much what they perceive as a host of programs they either didn’t like or were unsure of being forced upon the country by Obama and Congress beginning virtually the day Obama took office. This, combined with the Rasmussen poll I referenced, has led me to believe that the majority of the country’s voters not only disapprove of the health care bill but also the stimulous package and the bank and automotive bailouts and feel they were foist upon the country against its will. This view is further supported by Nancy Pelosi herself, who encouraged Democrats in the House to vote for the health care bill “even if it costs them their jobs”. Obama, and probably even more so, the Congress, knew damn good and well that the electorate didn’t want the health care bill but they were determined to foist it off on us anyway. And these are the reasons I’ve come to believe that people think of the health care bill (and the other programs I mentioned) has been forced down their throats. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/83 "2010-11-10T02:56:42Z")
Anybody else find it a bit disturbing that tighty righties are so universally fond of the analogy of objects being rammed into orifiices? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/84 "2010-11-10T03:19:07Z")
Yeah, right, like we’re the only ones. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/85 "2010-11-10T05:58:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There’s a fairly good chance of it happening beginning in two years. One we get control of the Senate and a Republican in the White House, then depending on public sentiment at the time it stands a very good chance of being repealed. And in the meantime it may be killed by Republicans withholding funding for it. We’ll have to wait and see. I agree that wait-and-see is the proper course of action. But it is clear to me that as things stand, the Democratic party won the health-care debate. The current situation (both legislative and political) is significantly more favorable to their goals than to the GOP goals. My current belief is that the insurance companies have bought into the new system to a degree that will make significant repeal difficult, and make a repeal of just the individual mandate (the one part that actually makes their lives better) impossible. I believe one company (Cigna?) just today announced they oppose repeal. I can only imagine this resistance will be stronger in two years, as the exchanges begin to come online. > [@](#): > > Two things: One, you have to get elected before you can do anything, thus the importance of getting elected; and two, putting up obstacles to legislation that is bad for the future of the country and its people IS improving the lives of Americans. I definitely agree with the last part. The first seems like exactly what the Democrats did: they got elected, then they passed legislation in line with their party’s ideals. Then they lost power, as is inevitable. Attempting to legislate with the goal of only winning the next election leads to wasted majorities (which is a common complaint I here from conservatives re: the early Bush years). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/86 "2010-11-10T15:36:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anybody else find it a bit disturbing that tighty righties are so universally fond of the analogy of objects being rammed into orifiices? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, right, like we’re the only ones. Knock it off or take it to the BBQ Pit. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/87 "2010-11-10T17:42:20Z")
I thought it was pretty funny. Guess I should have put a smilie at the end. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/88 "2010-11-10T17:48:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anybody else find it a bit disturbing that tighty righties are so universally fond of the analogy of objects being rammed into orifiices? 😕 Isn’t everybody?! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/89 "2010-11-10T18:38:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If the Democrats do that, they’ll be destroyed in 2014. One of the things they got punished for in this election was the way in which they strong-armed health care reform. That really put a lot of independents off. If they come back after being sent this message and respond by eliminating the filibuster so they can continue on their same agenda, there will be all kinds of blowback. They were NEVER going to get Repuiblican cooperation on health reform. Were you paying any attention at all to the Republican alternative? What kept me home on election night was how little the Democrats pushed their agenda, not how MUCH they pushed it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/90 "2010-11-10T18:40:02Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Shut The Fuck Up, Moron. That’s is a very compelling argument. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/91 "2010-11-10T18:41:20Z")
Heh. They “strong-armed health care reform.” By packing in the public option and caving in to the Republicans every step of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/92 "2010-11-10T18:43:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, as I recall things, they took over the House and made major gains in the Senate. > > Maybe you saw it - it was in all the papers. > > Regards, > Shodan What percentage of the election was about health care and what percentage do you think was about the economy? I would bet everything I own taht if we had a V shaped recovery, the tea party would have beena flash in the pan wand the Rwepublican aprty would have stayed out in teh wilderness for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/93 "2010-11-10T18:45:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As is his right. But that’s only his opinion and like I said, we’ll just have to wait and see. If there’s one thing the recent election showed, it’s that people are very unhappy at having this health care bill shoved down their throats (well, that and promises regarding the economy havent been kept). If there seems to be enough popular support for it, the bill will fall by the wayside one way or another. That is entirely possible, I read somewhere that most of FDR’s New Deal got repealed or overturned. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/94 "2010-11-10T19:02:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What percentage of the election was about health care and what percentage do you think was about the economy? I doubt that this can be quantified in any hard-figures way. But the two issues are not in opposition - the Tea Party was in opposition both to the size of the federal government **and** the size of the deficit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665/95 "2010-11-11T14:14:18Z")
But this wasn’t an election in which only the Tea Party voted. In fact, a poll today shows that only 39% support repealing or rolling back the health care law, while 58% would rather keep it or make more changes. [Link.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101111/ap_on_go_co/us_ap_poll_gop_agenda;_ylt=AphSpZQ6Zhmme.vbrz13sx6yFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTJyZmM0b3A1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMTExL3VzX2FwX3BvbGxfZ29wX2FnZW5kYQRjcG9zAzExBHBvcwM4BHNlYwN5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawNhcC1nZmtwb2xscHU-) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-obama-administration-effectively-over-even-if-he-wins-and-dems-retake-the-house-in-2012/559665.md?page=4)