# Is the past progressive disfavored in Scottish English? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272 "2014-04-29T13:41:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/1 "2014-04-29T13:41:36Z")
I picked up something interesting in another forum, one that’s unfortunately lightly trafficked, so I’d like to ask it again on the Dope. For those of you well acquainted with Scottish English and its modern usage, especially in the Edinburgh area, is the past progressive less likely to be used than the past simple? For example, out of: “I saw you. You were sitting in the corner, alone.” and “I saw you. You sat in the corner, alone.” Does the second sound more authentic? Can you give me any more observations about selection between the two tenses? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/2 "2014-04-29T15:35:40Z")
I’d expect to hear “I saw you. You were sat in the corner, alone.” That’s very much, I dunno, vernacular? Is that the word I’m looking for? But people do say it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/3 "2014-04-29T15:46:25Z")
Like Paul, I would most often hear “You were sat”, but “You were sitting” is used too. “You sat” seems jarring to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/4 "2014-04-29T16:09:18Z")
“You were sat”? In my dialect (pretty standard American, sometimes dipping into Appalachian) that would mean that someone else had put the person in a corner, as if they weren’t in control of their own limbs. How interesting. A friend who is familiar with Scottish Gaelic suggested that speakers of that might use the Scots formation “You were to sitting”. But that wouldn’t occur to someone from the lowlands. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/5 "2014-04-29T16:17:54Z")
I’ve never heard anyone say “You were to sitting”. Granted, I’m from the Lowlands, but even so, I think I would notice someone using that formation as it would sound extremely incongruous. There may be _some_ Gaelic speakers in the Highlands who are not bilingual with English, but I doubt they could field a shinty team. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/6 "2014-04-29T16:27:30Z")
Well, my friend is also American, so never mind us. We aim to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/7 "2014-04-29T16:42:02Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > There may be _some_ Gaelic speakers in the Highlands who are not bilingual with English, but I doubt they could field a shinty team. There was a recent thread on here where one of our resident linguists suggested that the only remaining monoglot Gaelic speakers are likely pre-school-age children. They would struggle with shinty I think 😛 ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/8 "2014-04-29T17:17:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There was a recent thread on here where one of our resident linguists suggested that the only remaining monoglot Gaelic speakers are likely pre-school-age children. They would struggle with shinty I think 😛 I was originally going to say “basketball”, but I guess pre-schoolers would struggle with that too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/9 "2014-04-29T21:59:09Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > “You were sat”? In my dialect (pretty standard American, sometimes dipping into Appalachian) that would mean that someone else had put the person in a corner, as if they weren’t in control of their own limbs. How interesting. > > A friend who is familiar with Scottish Gaelic suggested that speakers of that might use the Scots formation “You were to sitting”. But that wouldn’t occur to someone from the lowlands. Irish here, not Scots, but our construction would translate literally as ‘You were at doing x’ rather than ‘to doing x’ (and it wouldn’t work with ‘sitting’, which takes a different construction). I’ve never heard anyone use it in English. In The Once and Future King, when T.H. White is writing conversations that are supposed to be in Scots Gaelic, he uses that structure sometimes. Irish people don’t say ‘He was sat in the corner’, but I’ve heard Scottish and English people use it. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/10 "2014-04-29T22:06:06Z")
Just realised something: the ‘at’ construction doesn’t actually mean the same thing as the ‘sat’ one - we’re discussing two separate things. The Irish for ‘You were at sitting in the corner’ means ‘You were in the process of sitting down in the corner’. ‘You were seated in the corner’ is a whole different thing. In English, ‘sitting’ means both the action and the static condition of being seated, so it sounds like your friend blurred the two together. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/11 "2014-04-29T22:32:49Z")
Yes, it does. I’ve been mulling it over since the first round of responses came in this morning, and specifically thinking about my grandmother’s old-timey Hoosier/Appalachian dialect, which derives in part from old-timey Scottish dialects. She’ll use “set” as an alternate pronunciation of “sit”. And if I heard her say “You were set in the corner” I wouldn’t blink an eye. It’s just a vowel shift away from the Scottish construction given in the first and second responses here. My brain has built a completely different linguistic story around the two, though. Ain’t linguistics grand? (must be why I have a Ph.D. in it, my ignorance notwithstanding) ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/12 "2014-04-29T23:15:43Z")
It would sound more natural to me to hear her say “you were set down in the corner.” Meaning, the person had in the past been seated in the corner. Which is odd because “sit down” and “sat down” are both about the act of sitting down, not the state of being seated… No conclusions here. Just pondering. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/13 "2014-04-30T00:22:53Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > It would sound more natural to me to hear her say “you were set down in the corner.” Meaning, the person had in the past been seated in the corner. Which is odd because “sit down” and “sat down” are both about the act of sitting down, not the state of being seated… > > No conclusions here. Just pondering. Well, in Scotland I wouldn’t be surprised to hear someone say “You were sat down in the corner.” I think most people wouldn’t, because the extra word would seem redundant, but it wouldn’t sound jarring or anything. But my non-expert thought would be that you could be on to something in terms of your grandmother’s dialect and the way modern-day Scots speak. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/14 "2014-04-30T21:28:51Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Yes, it does. > > I’ve been mulling it over since the first round of responses came in this morning, and specifically thinking about my grandmother’s old-timey Hoosier/Appalachian dialect, which derives in part from old-timey Scottish dialects. She’ll use “set” as an alternate pronunciation of “sit”. And if I heard her say > > “You were set in the corner” > > I wouldn’t blink an eye. It’s just a vowel shift away from the Scottish construction given in the first and second responses here. My brain has built a completely different linguistic story around the two, though. Ain’t linguistics grand? > > (must be why I have a Ph.D. in it, my ignorance notwithstanding) What a cool thing to have a Ph.D. in. I love the very little I’ve heard of Appalachian dialects. I bet they’re packed with Old Country holdovers that have long since died out in the old country. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/15 "2014-04-30T21:40:10Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > What a cool thing to have a Ph.D. in. > > I love the very little I’ve heard of Appalachian dialects. I bet they’re packed with Old Country holdovers that have long since died out in the old country. These-a-days, the degree has boiled down to two useful points: 1. I learned to bloviate with the best of them, and 2. I occasionally enjoy telling people that I have it I’ve been pondering the Scotland vs. Appalachia thing since starting this thread (while listening to Norman Blake’s album Whiskey Before Breakfast, which is conducive to pondering). There is just an awful lot about Scottish culture that is familiar and natural to Americans with roots in that region. It almost becomes the background against which everything else (cultural roots in Germany, central Europe, Africa, wherever) stands out. A quick read-through of some James Whitcomb Riley illustrates that well: LITTLE Orphant Annie’s come to our house to stay, An’ wash the cups an’ saucers up, an’ brush the crumbs away, An’ shoo the chickens off the porch, an’ dust the hearth, an’ sweep, An’ make the fire, an’ bake the bread, an’ earn her board-an’-keep; An’ all us other childern, when the supper-things is done, We set around the kitchen fire an’ has the mostest fun A-list’nin’ to the witch-tales ‘at Annie tells about, An’ the Gobble-uns 'at gits you Ef you Don’t Watch Out! Phonetically, it reads not so differently from Robert Burns’ less-broad poetry, right? And then there’s moonshine vs. illicit whiskey stills. And jigging vs. clogging and flatfooting. And my grandmother’s, and even Aunt’s, abiding belief that Black Watch plaid is the most elegant thing ever… also that Scottie dogs are desirable jewelry motifs. Well, my great-grandmother was a Grant, so that excuses the Black Watch plaid at least. And the list goes on. None of this is revelatory stuff, but it’s the headspace I’m in right now. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/16 "2014-04-30T21:59:53Z")
I like the rhyme. I don’t a lot about linguistics at all, but I love noticing little correspondences like that. Just for example, that ‘childern’ in the rhyme has echoes over here, too. In Ireland a lot of older people still say ‘childer’ as the plural of ‘child’. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/17 "2014-04-30T22:07:02Z")
Yes, I’m neglecting the Irish influence on all of it. Over here it’s thrown together and labelled “Scotch-Irish”. To which the proper response, I understand, is that scotch is something one drinks. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-past-progressive-disfavored-in-scottish-english/687272/18 "2014-05-02T17:17:05Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Irish people don’t say ‘He was sat in the corner’, but I’ve heard Scottish and English people use it. I think they do. Almost certain I’ve heard it, maybe in the north. “I was sat there minding my own business when some cretin punched me.”