# IS the phrase "I don't see color" offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234 "2017-10-30T16:38:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/21 "2017-10-30T22:57:04Z")
I think as a goal to “not see color” is positive in the sense that if everyone strove to be “colorblind” racism wouldn’t exist. Others have pointed out correctly that it could also be construed to not empathizing with past wrongs or current hardships being leveled by racism which obviously wouldn’t be a positive. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/22 "2017-10-30T23:30:05Z")
I have a theory that the phrase “I don’t see color” has mostly been said as the joke, and was not a thing until that. Some writer for colbert overheard someone say it once and it became part of their output that day. It was a perfect joke that colbert told, like one of his defining moments. I can remember hearing it. Saying it straight is ridiculous. I just can’t imagine anyone doing it, unless as an explanation of something that is borderline racist. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/23 "2017-10-31T00:47:25Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > The phrase “I don’t see color” frames racism as an individual issue and posits that all that is required of an ally is that they _individually_ do not perform any racist acts to sufficiently support POC. This framing is morally convenient as it allows white people to feel absolved while not expending any great effort but it’s also selective blindness as it fails to grapple with the true nature of racism in today’s society. > > If any of these “I don’t see color” people had bothered to actually seriously engage with a POC on the topic of racism, they would understand that the main form of discrimination is not individual actions but systematic racism and that it requires active dismantling. “Not seeing color” ranges from ineffective to actively harmful in a society where everyone else sees color and that has to be taken into account. As a trivial example: You can compliment a white person by saying they’re articulate and they can take that compliment at face value but you can’t “not see color” and give the same compliment to a black person because you’re failing to engage in the complex legacy that word has in the black community. That’s a relatively clearcut example but most other examples are far more murky and require you to grapple with complex sociology and history. > > Whenever I hear someone say “I don’t see color”, at best they’re someone who hasn’t talked to many people who experience racism and have chosen to remain ignorant about the reality of racism. At worst, they’re in active denial and every time someone has pointed out how they do see color, they refuse to see it because their self-image of being “not racist” is more important to them than actively working towards racial equality. Wow, thank you for the best post I’ve seen in years! I’m completely in agreement and awe. This covers it all. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/24 "2017-10-31T01:19:33Z")
> [@Jake\_Bullet\_Traffic\_Control](#): > > I… …offensive? I’ve only ever seen rubes in comedy shows make that statement. So, it seems to be at least dorky. It seems more honest, imho, to say, “I’m more interested in [some relevant thing] than the color of your skin.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/25 "2017-10-31T02:48:58Z")
It might not be 100% accurate, but it’s not offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/26 "2017-10-31T03:05:54Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I have a theory that the phrase “I don’t see color” has mostly been said as the joke, and was not a thing until that. Some writer for colbert overheard someone say it once and it became part of their output that day. > > It was a perfect joke that colbert told, like one of his defining moments. I can remember hearing it. > > Saying it straight is ridiculous. I just can’t imagine anyone doing it, unless as an explanation of something that is borderline racist. It was certainly a thing, just very dated. My grandmother (born in 1916) used to say it. (IMO, she was perhaps not being totally honest with herself, but it certainly wasn’t offensive when it came from a person who was already middle-aged at the time of the civil rights movement; in her day, it was the progressive thing to say.) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/27 "2017-10-31T03:08:24Z")
I see this phrase as being on par with “ALL lives matter”. It marginalizes the specific mistreatment of POC. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/28 "2017-10-31T04:11:24Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > It was certainly a thing, just very dated. My grandmother (born in 1916) used to say it. (IMO, she was perhaps not being totally honest with herself, but it certainly wasn’t offensive when it came from a person who was already middle-aged at the time of the civil rights movement; in her day, it was the progressive thing to say.) Do you know how to search the usage over history? I just took a stab, and failed. It would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/29 "2017-10-31T04:53:51Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > The phrase “I don’t see color” frames racism as an individual issue and posits that all that is required of an ally is that they _individually_ do not perform any racist acts to sufficiently support POC. This framing is morally convenient as it allows white people to feel absolved while not expending any great effort but it’s also selective blindness as it fails to grapple with the true nature of racism in today’s society. > > If any of these “I don’t see color” people had bothered to actually seriously engage with a POC on the topic of racism, they would understand that the main form of discrimination is not individual actions but systematic racism and that it requires active dismantling. I’ve never seriously engaged with a POC on the topic of racism, but I have hung out with them and made them baked macaroni. I am perplexed to be seen as just another sort of racist and am not sure what I should be doing in order to not be one. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/30 "2017-10-31T06:02:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I see this phrase as being on par with “ALL lives matter”. It marginalizes the specific mistreatment of POC. How does it marginalize anybody? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/31 "2017-10-31T06:04:04Z")
When you say “I don’t see colour”, I hear “I am a liar, even if only to myself”. As [testing](https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/) can show, near enough _everyone_ sees colour and has biases associated with it. I don’t equate it to “I try to treat everyone equally” because while the latter is aspirational, the former is self-delusion, and completely inauthentic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/32 "2017-10-31T06:05:06Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > **I’ve never seriously engaged with a POC on the topic of racism** , […]am not sure what I should be doing in order to not be one. I can think of one thing… ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/33 "2017-10-31T06:11:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How does it marginalize anybody? Give me a break. This strikes me as a blatantly disingenuous question. By throwing all races together, you effectively deny the specific (and unique) struggles of people of color. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/34 "2017-10-31T07:21:53Z")
One guy I went to grad school with didn’t see color. Well, at least he didn’t see a difference between red and green. It got a decent chuckle from the audience for a technical talk when he described a diagram with a comment I’d paraphrase as “This part is X, which I’m told is red, and this is the Y, which I’m told is green…” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/35 "2017-10-31T08:04:35Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > As a trivial example: You can compliment a white person by saying they’re articulate and they can take that compliment at face value but you can’t “not see color” and give the same compliment to a black person because you’re failing to engage in the complex legacy that word has in the black community. That’s a relatively clearcut example but most other examples are far more murky and require you to grapple with complex sociology and history. Can someone please explain to us foreigners? I can make vague guesses but an actual explanation will probably be better. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/36 "2017-10-31T08:41:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > When you say “I don’t see colour”, I hear “I am a liar, even if only to myself”. As [testing](https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/) can show, near enough _everyone_ sees colour and has biases associated with it. I don’t equate it to “I try to treat everyone equally” because while the latter is aspirational, the former is self-delusion, and completely inauthentic. [There are many problems with the IAT](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=problems+with+the+implicit+assumption+test). Not least of which that the same person can score positively or negatively when taking repeat tests. Personally I do see that people have different skin colours and I’m aware that they may have a history of oppression arising from that. (but equally may not). What I don’t have is any inherent bias to treating people differently based on that and where I have seen it I call it out, just as I would and have done for prejudice towards many traits. That seems to me to be the basic level of human decency required to oil the wheels of society, I don’t see skin colour prejudice as anything special or worth tying myself up in knots over. I’ve seen far more sexism than racism but that’s probably due to the fact that I don’t have any black friends and few black colleagues but lots that are female. (Whether one has lots or none, I suspect it is probably racist to touch on the subject of black friends either way) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/37 "2017-10-31T11:06:09Z")
If your name is Stevie Wonder, it’s perfectly fine. Most people who say it (or some variation like “I don’t care if you’re black or white or green or whatever”) are, in my experience, racists themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/38 "2017-10-31T11:41:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If your name is Stevie Wonder, it’s perfectly fine. Most people who say it (or some variation like “I don’t care if you’re black or white or green or whatever”) are, in my experience, racists themselves. As long as you don’t extrapolate from your experience to making a generalisation then you should be fine. Someone can actually say those words, honestly mean it, and not be a racist. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/39 "2017-10-31T11:57:09Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > As long as you don’t extrapolate from your experience to making a generalisation then you should be fine. Someone can actually say those words, honestly mean it, and not be a racist. In theory, yes. In my experience, everyone I’ve heard express that sentiment were themselves bigots. Others’ experiences may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234/40 "2017-10-31T16:46:46Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Can someone please explain to us foreigners? I can make vague guesses but an actual explanation will probably be better. Sure. “Articulate” is a term that white Americans disproportionately apply to black people who speak what is generally considered standard American English with a fairly neutral affect. White people who speak the same way don’t get called “articulate” anywhere near as much, because the ability to speak that way is presumed to be more or less the default for whites. So the term implies that it’s somewhat unusual or worthy of notice when a black person isn’t speaking what many whites perceive as “ghetto” or “gangsta” dialects. [This 2007 article](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html) explains the issue pretty well: > [@](#): > > SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN’S characterization of his fellow Democratic presidential contender Senator Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” was so painfully clumsy that it nearly warranted pity. […] > > Though it was little noted, on Wednesday President Bush on the Fox News Channel also described Mr. Obama as “articulate.” On any given day, in any number of settings, it is likely to be one of the first things white people warmly remark about Oprah Winfrey; Richard Parsons, chief executive of Time Warner; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Deval Patrick, the newly elected governor of Massachusetts; or a recently promoted black colleague at work. […] > > “Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” [Professor Eric] Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.” > > And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.” […] > > William E. Kennard, a managing director of the Carlyle Group and a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, recalled that in his days as partner at a Washington law firm in the early 1990s written reviews of prospective black hires almost always included the words, “articulate and poised.” The characterization was so consistent and in such stark contrast to the notes taken on white job applicants that he mentioned it to his fellow partners. > > “It was a law firm; all of the people interviewing for jobs were articulate,” said Mr. Kennard, 50, who is also on the board of The New York Times Company. “And yet my colleagues seemed struck by that quality in black applicants.” In other words: For a black person in a professional or other position that involves speaking to the public, being able to express oneself verbally is kind of like being able to wear clothes. If you wouldn’t call a white person “articulate” just for having basic verbal abilities, don’t apply the term to a black person in the same circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-i-dont-see-color-offensive/800234.md?page=3)