# Is the "pick up artist" movement an inherently good or bad thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932 "2018-04-23T20:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/301 "2018-05-02T04:42:08Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > She gets flustered and giggles and goes “OMG I didn’t mean THAT!!” and now you’re flirting sexually. > > The show Californication has a lot of great examples of misinterpretation and innuendo. Duchoveny drops it in in a really smooth way where he’s being a little outlandish but it’s in such a calibrated way that he comes across as funny (if a little boundary-pushing), instead of creepy. > > … > > The biggest first step for a guy is learning to touch the small of a girls back in a loud bar as he talks to her. It’s hard because we’re told that’s creepy, but it’s only creepy if it’s uncalibrated. If the girl is interested in you, she’s happy you’re confident enough to touch her. If she’s not interested, it’s creepy. > > … > > Confident guys assume they won’t be rejected. > > A lot of women will tell you “If a guy I didn’t know came up to ME and touched the small of MY back I would slap him outright grrrrr!!” That’s a logical answer, but in the moment a girl will respond emotionally if she’s interested in you. It’s like saying “if I saw a burning building, I’d run in and rescue everyone!” but if you came across a burning building you’d have a flash of your children waiting for you at home hoping you don’t burn in a fire today, etc. and probably wouldn’t react the same way. Logic VS emotion. Women will deny this, but I’ve seen and done it thousands of times, even on girls who say they wouldn’t react well to it…if the guy is attractive to them, they’re fine with it in the moment. > …a couple months of akward conversations (this is why we practice on random bar people or strangers on the street instead of girls we’re close to) where you learn to push the conversation sexually and bam, you’re good. > > … > > If you ask what she does and she says she’s a student, you CAN ask what she’s studying. You CAN ask how relieved she is that exams are over. Or you can tell her you hope she saved the naughty schoolgirl outfit for later with a cheeky grin. Before you learn to calibrate, something like that will weird her the crap out. But once you’re calibrated they love it. The problem is most guys won’t push themselves through the akwardness of learning to calibrate because it involves a ton of rejection and uncomfortable conversations. I’ll just point out here that while this is progress from the feller’s perspective, there is another party to all these creepy/awkward failure conversations, who by definition isn’t feeling so good about them. All these “Ifs” have alternative scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Zephyurs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/dfb087/32.png) [@Zephyurs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zephyurs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/302 "2018-05-02T04:51:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Society can be on the hook for whatever you like, including wanting women to be size six or less and all in love with babies and somehow having sex with every man who wants her while still somehow staying pure. It should go without saying (especially today of all days!) that society shits on women, too. And I’d much rather be a marginalized man than a marginalized woman on the dating scene. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > But basically if there’s something about you, and this is a general you, not a specific you, that prevents you from having the types of relationships you want, you have two choices for getting what you want: You can change the world or you can change you. I don’t know if we disagree at all. Commitments to political projects are a cold comfort when they’re only going to benefit future generations. So I prefer the two-pronged approach. Sure, you might have to give in a bit to acting out the role society assigned you, but you don’t have to subsume yourself in it. Having an intellectual framework to understand what you’re doing and why lets you define the terms on which you engage society-as-it-exists. In a dark twisted way, that’s a large part of the pick-up artist appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Zephyurs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/dfb087/32.png) [@Zephyurs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zephyurs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/303 "2018-05-02T04:57:34Z")
It’s also fair to mention that thinking of women as human beings instead of some mysterious other is itself conducive to having good luck dating, so there’s that reason too 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/304 "2018-05-02T05:00:14Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ve never followed strict gender roles in my own life and I think I’m much happier for it, but I recognize that it’s there. Sexism is rampant, but people ignore it when it is benefiting their sex at the expense of the other. > > But basically if there’s something about you, and this is a general you, not a specific you, that prevents you from having the types of relationships you want, you have two choices for getting what you want: You can change the world or you can change you. > > I know which one I’d bet on. > […] > I’m not at all unsympathetic to the plight of the socially awkward, but my sympathy isn’t going to do anyone any good. All of the sympathy and empathy I can muster will still not make someone fall in love with someone else and/or want to have sex with them. That requires effort, sometimes a ton of it, and some luck, too. Absolutely. It also requires you to get hurt, and keep getting hurt, and _really fucking feel the hurt._ That’s the only way it ever gets to hurt any less. You have to run the risk of burning out and giving up in despair. And fight it. Again and again. Every. God. Damn. Day. (Person with clinical depression talking.) I don’t know how people find the strength. I’m not even dumb-smart enough to feel good for them when they do. I wish I could. It’s easy to forget, when you see folks every day doing their thing and being easy together and such, that we each have to pull a helluva lot of weight in this life just to stay in one place. Actually making headway is another thing entirely. Keep on keepin’ on, I guess. (Maybe I need to embrace cliché more fully! :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/305 "2018-05-02T05:17:20Z")
> [@Zephyurs](#): > > It’s also fair to mention that thinking of women as human beings instead of some mysterious other is itself conducive to having good luck dating, so there’s that reason too 🙂 I have it on good authority that we are actually aliens. > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Absolutely. It also requires you to get hurt, and keep getting hurt, and _really fucking feel the hurt._ That’s the only way it ever gets to hurt any less. You have to run the risk of burning out and giving up in despair. And fight it. Again and again. Every. God. Damn. Day. (Person with clinical depression talking.) Depression hurts even without any added stress like alienation or loneliness. I only dealt with it for a few months years ago, but it was enough for me to understand the pain. The best I can offer, honestly, is to say that the “getting hurt” part of shyness and social awkwardness usually isn’t all that painful when kept in perspective. I mean, lord knows I’ve done stupid things and felt embarrassed about them later, but it’s not a given that social experimentation is one big miserable experience after another. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/306 "2018-05-02T05:25:58Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Oh there are definately guys who are doing it for the “revenge” aspect of it. I was lucky to find the community when I was young enough to adapt it into my regular social life. Imagine being a 45 year old man who’s had maybe 1 relationship in his life, and it was a shitty one, and for 45 years you’ve been alone and watched all your friends succeed and been told to “just be yourself, it will happen someday” and wondering when someday is coming. > > Then you find some information that’ll give you a “leg up”, and the first thing you think is “haha fuck you guys I found the secret!!! I am gonna make up for those 45 years, I am gonna make these bitches pay for rejecting me for so long!!!” > > It’s not a healthy mentality, and it’s not all guys…it’s just that these guys are the most vocal and stand out the most and are the ones that fall into the “you can land any girl you want with my $5000 course” marketing. > > It’s kind of like the kid who’s been bullied finally taking a Karate class. At the start he gets all super cocky because he’s like “I’m gonna show you guys, you just watch grrr!!!” Over time some of those guys stay assholes and go around beating people up with their Karate skills. But most of them spend some time in the class and over time they chill out and realize that all that anger/resentment does no good, and they let it all go and quit flaunting their new knowledge as some payback deal and use it as it was intended: to feel safe and confident. > > Le Jacquelope puts it pretty good…it’s not that they hate women, it’s that they hate and are frustrated with society. Unfortunately it’s easier to say “I nailed that bitch and then jizzed on her face and kicked her out the door haha” than “I’m still working on all this pent up resentment so I’m going through a phase of treating women like garbage because I haven’t got enough experience to understand there’s more to it than this!!!” It’s hard to add to perfection, but I’ll try here. These guys who are resentful need a support group. But all they get is judgemental bullshit instead. That so many people have next to zero idea of what happens when you do this to a group of people is sad, but not surprising. We always need the low male on the totem poles to beat on. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/307 "2018-05-02T05:31:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Nun sex scandals? You obviously have not perused Italian fetish porn of the 1970s, or you would not be asking that question. 😃 Those are mere fantasies… > [@Malacandra](#): > > Not that it’s classy to insult obese women, but I think that the point was that the treatment meted out to the average guy is something a woman has to be pretty unattractive to earn in her turn. Pretty much. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > What are, specifically, “the consequences” of “men going without sex/romance”? I’d imagine you can answer that yourself, but… resentment, for one, and many of the guys you hear saying women suck, for two. BTW can someone explain to me why women never catch hell for bashing men? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/308 "2018-05-02T05:55:11Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I’d imagine you can answer that yourself, but… resentment, for one, and many of the guys you hear saying women suck, for two. So, when you said > [@](#): > > Men going without sex/romance and women going without sex/romance are not the same, they do not produce the same consequences. You meant that if men go without sex or romance they will become resentful and possibly say women suck. This is a pretty shocking and ghastly thing. What is it that women do if they go without sex and romance? They can’t become resentful or say men suck since you’re saying it’s just not the same thing. So, what do they do? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/309 "2018-05-02T06:33:31Z")
The pickup movement is not inherently bad. Men and women are both largely driven by instinct when it comes to attraction to the opposite sex. Women, to their credit, figured this out eons ago and know exactly how to appeal to men’s instincts. Men’s attraction to women is largely driven by visual cues. Knowing this, women wear clothing that accentuates their body, wear make up, etc. That is simply them knowing how to trigger men’s sexual attraction instinct. Thus, no one in their right mind considers a statement like “Men fawn over women with big boobs and low cut shirts” to be sexist because it is by and large true. The pick up artist movement is about teaching men how to trigger women’s instincts of attraction. With women, instead of being visual, it is all of the things listed in this thread so far - confidence, alpha behavior, uniqueness, etc. In this regard, men helping hapless other men learn how to appeal to these things is no different than when (as I’ve learned from movies :p) a group of women take their dorky friend and pick her out a sexy outfit and doll her up so that she can land a date with the Quaterback who never noticed her before. One point that I did want to raise here is that those who are calling the pickup artist concept misogynistic, are, IMHO, guilty of misogynism themselves in that they are treating women as some sort of helpless chaste objects who can’t help but be carried away by some scumbag if he only knows how to press the right buttons. Women want to have sex too, and with someone as attractive as possible. There is nothing wrong with men learning what to do to appear as attractive as possible to women. Such a concept is far less misogynistic than one that denies women any agency whatsoever in their sexual choices. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/310 "2018-05-02T07:12:00Z")
Well, but nobody thinks these guys are being misogynist because they want to have sex and (impliedly) the women don’t. People think these guys are being misogynist because of the misogynist things they say and talk about doing. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/311 "2018-05-02T07:35:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Depression hurts even without any added stress like alienation or loneliness. I only dealt with it for a few months years ago, but it was enough for me to understand the pain. Thanks. For me it’s been a long-term companion, because I came to understand my lack of interpersonal relationships as a kind of punishment for my condition - I mean, at some point, you have to ask yourself, “What did you expect?” I’ve yet to find my way out of that. > [@](#): > > The best I can offer, honestly, is to say that the “getting hurt” part of shyness and social awkwardness usually isn’t all that painful when kept in perspective. I suppose. But sometimes, perspective just lulls one into a false and restless sort of half-contentment that ends up being a lifelong trap. Sometimes I think I’ve yet to hit bottom, and should just stop putting it off. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/312 "2018-05-02T15:27:07Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > > [@Le Jacquelope](#): > > > > Point taken. > > > > Clarification: Guys have the class NOT to insult a woman like that to her face. > > I don’t agree with this either. Most or many: Yes! All: No. There are some jerks out there. > > I just don’t think the world works well with the absolutes you’re giving us. I think the quoted sentence was imperative not declarative. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/313 "2018-05-02T19:29:03Z")
> [@Zephyurs](#): > > Well, for one, you’re putting words into my mouth–I don’t believe I used the word cosmic. There are many worse discriminations in the world than that against being temperamentally shy, obviously. > > For two, you’re universalizing your own particular experience of shyness. Have you considered the idea that the way you overcame shyness might not be applicable to every man in the world? > > But, most importantly, you fundamentally miss the point. It’s easy to say, these guys should just act more like men should be, full of swagger and confidence in approaching women. But why should it be like that? Why can’t each person achieve happiness simply by being themselves? Some guys are just inherently shy, and we’ve had women complain in this very thread about how difficult it is to always be on the passive side of the dating game. Why is “buck up and get over your shyness” a superior solution to trying to rethink how we interact with each other as human beings, especially since those two groups of people are sort of being screwed in your plan? Well, to answer your last question first - it’s a superior solution because, not to be too blunt about it, it is more likely to work. Which do you think is more likely to happen in, oh, the next year or so - that all of humanity thinks up a “… superior solution to trying to rethink how we interact with each other as human beings …”, or that one guy overcomes his shyness and starts talking and flirting with girls? As to why people can’t just be happy being themselves - I see no reason why they should not, but of course they have to accept the sweet of that with the sour. If I am most “myself” when I’m playing video games all day, rather than working for a living, I should not complain when I have no money, or demand to have the same sort of cash as a person who works all day; if I am “myself” when smoking, eating potato chips all day and not exercising, being unhealthy is sort of a natural consequence of that. Similarly, if I’m an introvert who likes keeping to myself, I should sorta expect that I’m likely to be lonely. If I dislike being lonely, the solution is not to wait around on my ass for the world to change, but to change those aspects of my behaviour which are making me lonely. I don’t see that as some sort of loss of essential integrity. Nor do I think it is easy to do. It is no easier than any other essential change to one’s lifestyle - ditching smoking, eating and exercising right, etc. etc. all of which many people have trouble with. However, the solution to a problem like being addicted to cigarettes is not to wait around until society comes up with a solution like a cure for lung cancer which would allow smokers to suffer no ill effects - even though quitting is hard. I’m not saying that to put lonely people down, or question their essential worth; nor do I think that being some sort of swaggering dude is essential to manliness. However, if shyness is the problem, it strikes me as better to tackle the problem than to simply wish it were not a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/314 "2018-05-02T19:49:05Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > I think the quoted sentence was imperative not declarative. > > pdts No, it was declarative. He was trying to pull a silver lining out of a cloud by saying “guys have the class to not insult women to their faces, while women will insult men to their faces.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/315 "2018-05-02T19:51:20Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Similarly, if I’m an introvert who likes keeping to myself, I should sorta expect that I’m likely to be lonely. I would change this to “I should sorta expect that I’m likely to be alone.” Some people can be alone and not lonely. But fundamentally, yes. If someone, man or woman, keeps mostly to themselves and doesn’t go out and about, I don’t really know how society can do anything about that. Imagine that Marion is hungry. He’s so hungry he’s actually starving. So malnourished that his health is suffering. One day, he’s out and about and he collapses. He’s rushed to the hospital and they discover how malnourished he is and ask him about it. “Society didn’t look out for me,” Marion says. “Did you contact anyone for food stamps or go to a food pantry?” “No. I didn’t tell anyone I was hungry. Society let me down.” I think most of us would look at that story and say, “Dude, Marion, you gotta tell people. They can’t read your mind.” So, are what some shy people expecting similar to what Marion was expecting? Are some, not all, shy people thinking other people should be able to tell that they are emotionally hungry without them having to say anything? I think it’s not an overstatement to say that ain’t gonna work (and I don’t think people would genuinely argue that it would or could. I think some positions are more ideals than practical solutions). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/316 "2018-05-02T19:56:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Are some, not all, shy people thinking other people should be able to tell that they are emotionally hungry without them having to say anything? It took me a depressingly long time to stop thinking this. I still fall victim to it occasionally if I’m in a low mood. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/317 "2018-05-02T20:38:44Z")
Is there a PUA Techinques book for dummies? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/318 "2018-05-02T21:38:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Are some, not all, shy people thinking other people should be able to tell that they are emotionally hungry without them having to say anything? Tricky one. I think there \*are \*people out there who believe that it’s perfectly obvious that they’ve never been seen to eat anything, and that if they “whine” and “beg” for food, they will attract scorn, derision, and even less chance of being fed. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/319 "2018-05-02T22:44:10Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, when you said > > You meant that if men go without sex or romance they will become resentful and possibly say women suck. This is a pretty shocking and ghastly thing. What is it that women do if they go without sex and romance? They can’t become resentful or say men suck since you’re saying it’s just not the same thing. So, what do they do? I say that if on rare chance no man wants a woman, she’ll tend to grin and bear it and find other things to do with their lives than bother with men. If you know where women go and say on forums or forum-equivalents that “no one wants me!” then feel free to bring it up. The women who gripe and moan are the ones who date guys and get mistreated by them. But they don’t count, either, because, well, nobody minds male-bashing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/320 "2018-05-02T22:50:37Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I say that if on rare chance no man wants a woman, she’ll tend to grin and bear it and find other things to do with their lives than bother with men. If you know where women go and say on forums or forum-equivalents that “no one wants me!” then feel free to bring it up. So, men get resentful and mean and women just bear it and this… is supposed to make men more sympathetic somehow? I mean, it’s completely a figment of your imagination this world where there are so few women who want sex and romance and can’t find them, but even if it weren’t, all you’re doing is saying that men are less able to deal with disappointment than women are. Is that really what you want to say? Why doesn’t that count as male-bashing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932.md?page=17)