# Is the "pick up artist" movement an inherently good or bad thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932 "2018-04-23T20:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/481 "2018-05-09T04:57:39Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > In fact, it’s easier to pick women up away from the club scene, because everyone there has their guard up. Yep. Clubs are the hardest environment to pick-up in because girls are on their guard the second they walk in the door. They’ll test you way harder, other guys will tool you and compete to try to take your girl, the girls have had a dozen lame guys approach them, the girls get a little cocky because it’s just a bar so they’ll be way more rude than they would be in a normal environment, the music is often so loud you can barely talk or hear, DJs are shouting, fights break out around you, angry drunk boyfriends show up out of nowhere, girls play guys off against eachother for the fun of it, girls are out in massive groups and there’s always a mother hen or two who won’t let them run off with a guy even if they really want to, people get anywhere from a little tipsy to throwing-up hammered so you run into girls who can barely stand let alone listen to what you’re saying (I hate that! They’re always so cute till they’re hammered) and guys have been shot down a bunch and are sexually frustrated so they’re quicker to throw down…and even if you get phone numbers from girls here, 90% of them won’t even respond let alone come meet up again. …I love it. 😃 I like the challenge. Chatting up a cute friendly chick who’s not expecting to get picked up in a quiet bookstore, or grabbing a number from a girl on the bus beside you is a walk in the park if you can hold your own in a chaotic nightclub. Plus daytime numbers are almost always solid compared to bars. There’s a PUA that focuses entirely on meeting girls during the week during the daytime, and then sets up his dates for fri/sat nights, to avoid the bar scene chaos altogether. > [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Being in shape is part of this too. Not crucial, but you’ll do better if you’re in shape. The main reason to be in at least “okay” shape (don’t need a six-pack or anything, even a little chubby is fine) is that it’s something you can control. You might have been born with an ugly pug-face, be super short, have mangled teeth, had a thumb lopped off when you were a kid, etc. Those aren’t things you can control. But your weight, brushing your teeth, clipping your nails, wearing clothes that look good on you and match your personality, etc. are things you can control, so it says good things about you if you take care of them. Fix what you can, don’t worry about what you can’t. 🙂 Oddly, often the giant body-builder juice-monkey guys have ugly/controlling/etc. girlfriends, if any at all, despite society’s assumptions that they’ll get the hottest girls…because their hardcore working out is linked to low self-esteem (never big enough, never jacked enough, obsessively measuring bodyfat, etc.). This isn’t all of them obviously, but when you see a jacked up guy in a club, he’s usually not competition at all in terms of attracting women (you just have to watch out he doesn’t get mad and knock your head in with his giant monkey-fists haha) > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I met both my late husband and my current fiance online, in the first case on a dating site and in the second case here. Glad you met guys you dig! Online has been an awesome advancement in making dating more accessable to people who hate the bar scene. Game still works on dating sites (my buddy and I pick up a ton of chicks off them) but I personally like to go for girls I see in person because I’ve fallen for the “profile isn’t anything like the person actually is in real life” thing a few times haha > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Sales works, for the most part, not by disguising itself as something else. It generally takes an incredibly stupid salesperson to think they are somehow being undetectable. Sales work when the person is willing to go along with the technique, not when they are oblivious to it. Glad you wrote that because I agree and it describes pick-up. The girls I flirt with know exactly what’s going on because they’re socially aware too. As soon as we start flirting they can tell where I’m going to lead things, and they’re relieved because most guys will make things awkard out of shyness, take too long to make a move, not be able to read their signals, judge them with a madonna/whore complex for being horny, etc. So when I come along and they can tell from my vibe that not only am I going to give them a chance to let loose sexually with no judgement at all, but that I’m also going to competantly handle their friends and the environment around us in a way where I make everything seem like my fault instead of theirs so they can keep their madonna reputation…why wouldn’t they LOVE that and jump at the chance to play along? Girls love sex. They’re just judged for admitting that to their friends, family, and men (the degree depends on the society/culture they’re raised in of course). PUAs understand girls love sex and just remove all the obstacles to them having a fun sexual experience where they don’t feel judged as a whore. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > In my experience most people are not aware of most of the effects of the sales techniques used on them. Even people who are not incredibly stupid. In fact on Friday a book smart friend of mine claimed that advertising has absolutely no effect on him. Agreed! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: How people say they’ll react when they’re consciously thinking about it and how they react emotionally in the moment are often two entirely different things. 😃 Like I say, it’s not selling a girl a lemon. It’s giving her exactly what her sexual self craves, the chance to act without judgement. - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/482 "2018-05-09T05:21:49Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > The girls I flirt with know exactly what’s going on because they’re socially aware too. > [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > > > In my experience most people are not aware of most of the effects of the sales techniques used on them. > > Agreed! Upon re-reading I realize these sound contradictory, I should have said “The girls I flirt with instinctively/emotionally know exactly what’s going on”, they’re not necessarily conscious of it…thus the “there’s just something ABOUT him” girls often say about guys that are triggering that subconscious primal urge. - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/483 "2018-05-09T08:10:19Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > I guess I’d just have to ask you: Is a psychologist (ie - someone who understands human behavior and views people through that lens because of his understanding) callous to you? > > Because if so, then I can entirely see why you wouldn’t like the way I talk or view social dynamics and interpersonal relationships and we don’t need to do this back-and-forth bit any further. > > - TWTTWN If a psychologist was using the techniques they have learned to take advantage of another person, I would report the issue to their professional association. In a clinical setting, the _patient_ agrees to the treatment. There’s an old story about a classroom of psych students using conditioning on a lecturing professor. They simply used paying attention to reward the professor for lecturing in a particular spot on the floor and eventually pinned him there. It’s a funny story, but ethically horrendous. Yes, I don’t like you because everything you’ve written here screams sociopath that has a very big bag of tricks to manage people. You spin a vast self-justification that they “really” want what you’re doing. Your describe people as targets or competitors. (Yes, I have a degree in psychology.) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/484 "2018-05-09T08:20:42Z")
You are really misusing the term sociopath. I suspect you’ve never met a real one. They have no conscience, they don’t know the difference between right and wrong, and they have no concern at all for other peoples’ feelings. **TWTTWN** is just very good at influencing people because he goes about it in a focused way instead of just doing it thoughtlessly like the majority of people do. That doesn’t make him a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/485 "2018-05-09T08:28:43Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You are really misusing the term sociopath. I suspect you’ve never met a real one. They have no conscience, they don’t know the difference between right and wrong, and they have no concern at all for other peoples’ feelings. **TWTTWN** is just very good at influencing people because he goes about it in a focused way instead of just doing it thoughtlessly like the majority of people do. That doesn’t make him a sociopath. I absolutely have met a real one. They tend to have a substantial deficit in empathy. They DO understand behavior and manipulating other people. Sociopaths are not clones of each other. There are varying degrees. And yes, manipulating people and then claiming that it’s for their own good is sociopathic. He is defining his system of techniques as a good way to function in a society. Everyone manipulates. Everyone does not promote manipulation as an SOP. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/486 "2018-05-09T08:30:27Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > **TWTTWN** is just very good at influencing people I think the only person he’s seduced is maybe you. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/487 "2018-05-09T09:01:47Z")
We were on the same page before he ever showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/488 "2018-05-09T09:09:14Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > If a psychologist was using the techniques they have learned to take advantage of another person, I would report the issue to their professional association. Getting someone to have sex with you is rarely taking advantage of them. What happens when psychologists and anthropologists try to get laid, do they just somehow shut out a certain part of their understanding of human nature? > [@](#): > > You spin a vast self-justification that they “really” want what you’re doing. I don’t think so, he is presented himself as primarily going after what he wants, but doing so in a way that is consistent with what women desire. Ultimately sex and relationships are by definition about mutual self interest. > [@](#): > > Your describe people as targets or competitors. Technically if you see someone and want to meet them and decide to do so you have targeted them. And if someone else is trying to do the same thing to the exclusion of you they are your competitor. I don’t understand what is so horrible about describing the mating game in technical terms. ---
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/489 "2018-05-09T09:15:16Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > In a clinical setting, the _patient_ agrees to the treatment. In a flirty conversation, both sides agree to possibly being turned on. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > Yes, I don’t like you because everything you’ve written here screams sociopath that has a very big bag of tricks to manage people. You spin a vast self-justification that they “really” want what you’re doing. So people DON’T want to meet someone who’s attractive to them and finds them attractive, have a relationship with that person that carries on for a length of time that they’re comfortable with (whether it’s one night (yes there are girls that want one night stands), a month, years, etc.) that satisfies both sides physically and emotionally, and that they look back on with fond memories (evidenced by the fact that girls keep in touch with me and don’t hate me if we’re no longer seeing eachother)? If that’s abuse to you then again, I can see why you wouldn’t like me, but I would definately think you have some sort of intimacy/sexual issues/hangups. I’m pretty sure anyone in the Ongoing Online Dating Advice thread here would LOVE the above described relationship. 😃 > [@AlienVessels](#): > > Your describe people as targets or competitors. To be fair, I’ve never called a girl a target, and if the goal is to get a girl and other guys are trying to get that girl then by definition at that time those guys are competition. They’re not in the way of some over-arcing evil plan to rule the universe…it’s just that in that moment, we both have the same goal of attracting that girl. If you’re running a race, the guy running beside you is a “competitor” too, I don’t see why you have to attach some nefarious purpose to the word if I say it. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > (Yes, I have a degree in psychology.) For the record, I don’t. My understanding of psychology is just from being a people-watcher most of my life and interacting with a ton of different people from all sorts of walks of life (my first friends when I was a baby were both from different races, I had both popular and shy friends growing up, and these days I’m as comfortable chatting up people in a biker/goth bar as I am in a martini lounge haha). > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > TWTTWN is just very good at influencing people because he goes about it in a focused way instead of just doing it thoughtlessly like the majority of people do. That doesn’t make him a sociopath. Thanks, that’s about how I look at it. The only difference between myself and a really friendly popular guy you know in real life is that what he’s doing unconsciously, I’m doing consciously because like most shy computer nerds, I didn’t learn the same social skills growing up and had to make a conscious effort to study them…the end result however, is that I can’t “un-learn” what I consciously know. That would be like telling someone to forget how to do math. It just becomes a lens through which you see the world naturally. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > They tend to have a substantial deficit in empathy. If anything I have more empathy than most people because I can tell how someone feels by their body language and I’ve been through a lot in my life and met people from so many different walks of life that I’ve met people with anger issues, women who’ve been raped or sexually abused as children, people who’ve led wonderful un-touched-by-tragedy lives and are happy as a clam 24/7, people who’ve survived terrible ordeals, people who are racist, people who’ve been the victims of racism, people with addictions that harm them, people with addictions that help them, etc. etc. When I say “I understand…” it’s not because that’s what I’m supposed to say, it’s because I really DO understand, either from first-hand or second-hand experience and feel what they’re feeling. As a nice guy growing up I always wanted to help people around me feel better if they were sad or going through hard times…now I’m just better that that. 🙂 > [@AlienVessels](#): > > And yes, manipulating people and then claiming that it’s for their own good is sociopathic. Again I refer to the example I wrote earlier in this post. If you consider that “my own good” and not “mutually benefitial” then we have very different definitions of what abuse is! Sex isn’t wrong or dirty or evil, and it’s not something you “take” from women, it’s something both men and women enjoy. You seem to have a really weird view of sex. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think the only person he’s seduced is maybe you. Zing! To be fair I’m not really attempting to influence/seduce the naysayers in this thread. I’ve stated before that I knew that was a lost cause as soon as I joined the thread, since I’ve had these discussions in real life over the years. I’m just answering questions and explaining the PUA perspective in-depth. You don’t have to like it, I mean, this is the Internet haha Plus if there are shy single guys reading this thread, it’d be nice if some of what I’m saying eased them into pick-up a bit and they were able to think about their past relationships or attempts at hitting on girls and consider whether some PUA principles make sense. I know when I started reading about pick-up I had a lot of “aHA!!!” moments looking back on my experiences with girls! 🙂 - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/490 "2018-05-09T10:31:43Z")
I don’t see what’s so wrong or devious or craven about having a focused, scientific approach to social interactions like flirting and picking up women just because most guys go into it with no plan whatsoever, without analyzing the situation, just doing “what feels right” because they don’t know any other method. Nobody would ever say that someone should apply this same unfocused method to driving a car, or building a house. [Richard Feynman used pickup techniques.](http://people.csail.mit.edu/dmoshkov/personal/Feynman-Sex-and-the-Cosmos.html) If you can’t learn from _him,_ who can you learn from? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/491 "2018-05-09T17:14:20Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I don’t see what’s so wrong or devious or craven about having a focused, scientific approach to social interactions like flirting and picking up women just because most guys go into it with no plan whatsoever, without analyzing the situation, just doing “what feels right” because they don’t know any other method. Nobody would ever say that someone should apply this same unfocused method to driving a car, or building a house. People are not objects. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/492 "2018-05-09T17:21:09Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Again I refer to the example I wrote earlier in this post. If you consider that “my own good” and not “mutually benefitial” then we have very different definitions of what abuse is! > > Sex isn’t wrong or dirty or evil, and it’s not something you “take” from women, it’s something both men and women enjoy. You seem to have a really weird view of sex. You have no basis for judging my views on sex. You said yourself, these techniques work regardless of the environment. I’ll give you that a bar is a meat market. Your local church is not, but you made it clear you have no problems using these techniques in non-pickup locations. You’re an opportunist, plain and simple. You’re just trying to dress it up and present it to stroke your ego. ---
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/493 "2018-05-09T19:00:36Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I’ll give you that a bar is a meat market. Your local church is not, but you made it clear you have no problems using these techniques in non-pickup locations. That’s odd. eHow and a dozen other dating advice sites for men and women (including, probably, threads here on the SDMB but I’m just guessing on that one) would disagree. It’s pretty common dating advice: > [@](#): > > [http://www.ehow.co.uk/how\_7740210\_meet-man-marry.html](http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_7740210_meet-man-marry.html) > [http://www.ehow.com/how\_4898857\_meet-men-single-mom.html](http://www.ehow.com/how_4898857_meet-men-single-mom.html) > > Join an activity in the community that interests you. Whether its a cooking class, a church group or a bowling league, finding activities that you love will help you find those with whom you have a lot in common. > > Go to church. If you belong to a religious organization, going to church is a great way to meet men who share your moral and religious beliefs. Get involved with your congregation by joining a committee or church group, which will help you meet the eligible bachelors in your spiritual community. **Many churches host events for their single members** too so try to attend a few of these. If your congregation doesn’t provide these events, ask your church leader if you can put one together. Well shit, definately sounds like it’s not an environment where people would like to meet other people for relationships. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > You’re an opportunist, plain and simple. You’re just trying to dress it up and present it to stroke your ego. > [@](#): > > [thefreedictionary.com](http://thefreedictionary.com) says: > > opportunist [ˌɒpəˈtjuːnɪst] > > a person who adapts his actions, responses, etc., to take advantage of opportunities, circumstances, etc. Well I won’t deny THAT particular definition. Isn’t this basically anyone who does anything? Hell, there’s an “Opportunist Magazine” online related to the stock market. > [@](#): > > also: > > op·por·tun·ist (pr-tnst, -ty-) > > One who takes advantage of any opportunity to achieve an end, often with no regard for principles or consequences. Well, I’ve clearly stated I do have principles: I don’t take advantage of really drunk girls, I turn down sex with married women because it now goes against my principles, I stop when a girl says a firm “no”, etc. And I’ve clearly stated I do have a regard for consequences: I make sure the girl doesn’t feel slutty or used and doesn’t feel judged, etc. Are there anymore labels you’d like to toss around to try to demonize me, Psychologist-who-attaches-psyche-labels-to-people-but-then-gives-others-shit-for-viewing-the-world-through-through-their-own-labelling-lens? 😉 - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/494 "2018-05-09T19:14:06Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Well, I’ve clearly stated I do have principles: I don’t take advantage of really drunk girls, I turn down sex with married women because it now goes against my principles, I stop when a girl says a firm “no”, etc. > > And I’ve clearly stated I do have a regard for consequences: I make sure the girl doesn’t feel slutty or used and doesn’t feel judged, etc. > > Are there anymore labels you’d like to toss around to try to demonize me, Psychologist-who-attaches-psyche-labels-to-people-but-then-gives-others-shit-for-viewing-the-world-through-through-their-own-labelling-lens? 😉 > > - TWTTWN Wow, you only take advantage of kind of drunk women and it only takes a “firm” no to get you stop. You’re demonizing yourself far more effectively than I ever could. I’m not a psychologist. I have a degree, that’s all. It no more makes me a psychologist than a map means you know the territory. You still don’t get it. You make it clear with every post what you are. If you had a friend you knew would be brutally honest with you, I’d suggest having them read your posts. Doesn’t seem likely that you’d have one like that though. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/495 "2018-05-09T19:28:48Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Wow, you only take advantage of kind of drunk women and it only takes a “firm” no to get you stop. I’m just shaking my head in disbelief that you could come away with this impression after reading everything he’s written. You clearly don’t understand it at all. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/496 "2018-05-09T19:39:01Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’m just shaking my head in disbelief that you could come away with this impression after reading everything he’s written. You clearly don’t understand it at all. You clearly didn’t read the line he wrote: > [@](#): > > I don’t take advantage of really drunk girls, I turn down sex with married women because it now goes against my principles, I stop when a girl says a firm “no”, etc. To which I replied: > [@](#): > > Wow, you only take advantage of kind of drunk women and it only takes a “firm” no to get you stop. ---
**Author:** ![TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheWhoToTheWhatNow)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/497 "2018-05-09T19:40:39Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Wow, you only take advantage of kind of drunk women and it only takes a “firm” no to get you stop. Sooooo…this probably wouldn’t be a good post to respond to with a roofie joke, hey? 😃 (hi, margin!) I’m not responding to the rest of your post because it’s pretty silly. - TWTTWN ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/498 "2018-05-09T19:50:23Z")
Either I’ve been completely taken in by this guy, or I missed the really bad thing he posted. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/499 "2018-05-09T20:03:15Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Either I’ve been completely taken in by this guy, or I missed the really bad thing he posted. Yeah, I’m not getting the need for hostility either. He’s an unapologetic pick-up artist, but really, what’s wrong with that? It’s not my thing, but more power to him if it’s his. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932/500 "2018-05-09T20:23:10Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Sooooo…this probably wouldn’t be a good post to respond to with a roofie joke, hey? 😃 (hi, margin!) > > I’m not responding to the rest of your post because it’s pretty silly. It’s all a game to you. That’s your problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pick-up-artist-movement-an-inherently-good-or-bad-thing/572932.md?page=26)