# Is the picture of the soldier with the Iraqi kids a hoax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087 "2004-04-15T01:41:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/41 "2004-04-16T18:20:43Z")
**dre2xl** - thank God you appeared I was reading through the thread and wondering if anyone would ever stop to think what sort of sense of humour the military fosters. Sick in a kind of South Park way probably understates it - as a necessary defense mechanism. Having spent some time around my brothers ex-para buddies as soon as I saw the offensive sign, the smiles and the thumbs up it just shouted “genuine” at me. Now marine is going to be that cheesy about doing anything “good”. I found it funny too - but as you say now some poor fucker if for it if the conclusion it is genuine is accepted by the military. If I were them I would claim it was fake and stick to it - I mean I hate this War with a vengence but my beef stays with Bush until War Crimes start appearing on the ground. I have no time for anyone having a go a simple squaddies for letting off some energy sick as it seems to us here at home. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/42 "2004-04-16T18:25:23Z")
**dre2xl** , **Chemical Boy** changed the text to read “[Lcpl Boudreaux saved my father and then he fixed up my sister!](http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/chemical_boy/lcpl11Edited.jpg)” He didn’t spend a lot of time on it, either, since the the “F” is recognizable at a glance as part of the “B” from “Boudreaux”, the and he copied “x” from “Boudreaux” too, including the grease-spot from the surrounding area. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/43 "2004-04-16T19:12:33Z")
**notquitekarpov** – I agree 100% with what you said. I grew up in a military family and I too know the kind of humor they develop, a defense mechanism is a good way to put it. Bush and the US military in general is on the defensive about their treatment of civilians and POWs, and that’s why all the OP’s Republican friends are trying to write it off as a fake. Most people simply don’t understand how these kinds of conditions can develop a warped sense of humor, and because of that, this poor guy will probably be kicked out of the military for political reasons over a relatively innocent joke. **Larry Mudd:** mea culpa. At the time, I was reading and posting in Lynx, so I didn’t see the pictures, so I didn’t/couldn’t verify that the “nice” pictures came in more than 1 version. ☹ Off-topic, but another tidbit: I’ve also heard that they collect camel spiders, starve the spiders for 2-3 days, and have contests where they bet on whose camel spider kills & eats the other camel spider. No cite on that though, just tossing something interesting in here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/44 "2004-04-17T00:19:14Z")
Actually the wording in the “saved” version isn’t all that odd, especially if the kid _does_ know English. Rather than the sign being a narrative, it is actually a commendation of the soldier for having his priorities straight. Obviously, the soldier showed proper sensitivity to Muslim sensibilities by first saving the father, and _then_ rescuing the less important sister. :rolleyes: It’s also possible that the father had suffered a grievous injury that had to be treated _right now_, before rescuing the sister who may have simply been trapped in debris but not in any imminent danger. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/45 "2004-04-17T13:10:02Z")
I passed the photos around the office today, The Saudis had never seen them. We came up with a unique idea. Both images are faked. Someone found this Marine’s photo on the net and blanked out whatever original message there was. He then produced two version. Since one person did both images, the two are so close you cannot tell the real from the fake. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/46 "2004-04-17T15:47:44Z")
Additonal background: I recognise the kid holding the sign from a BBC news report. Him and his friend befriended this group of American soldiers (who nickname him ‘Barney’), he learnt rudimentary but functional English (including many obscentities) from them, though I highly doubt he could either read or write it. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/47 "2004-04-17T20:11:44Z")
I should say that I don’t blame this Boudreaux guy. He probably joined the military to defend his country. NOT to get shipped off to Iraq for reasons that were always highly suspect (remember the huge stockpiles of WMD’s that Iraq was supposed to have?), plus the soldiers’ tour of duty keeps getting extended, and they’re getting shot at and bombed on a near-daily basis. Until we start hearing reports of them doing stuff like blowing up people’s houses and running over protesters with tanks, I’m laying my anger at the feet of our fearless leader, the prez. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/48 "2004-04-17T21:26:01Z")
It’s my belief that the photo is NOT a fake, the soldiers taught the boys to say things like “I f— your mother”, etc. and just about every senetnce of English that these boys uttered contained the F-word. The sign in the second picture looks more unliekly than the one in the first pictur. HOWEVER the soldiers were very fond of these two boys and there was certianly no malice towards them and I find it unlikely in the extreme that the sign was anything other than a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/49 "2004-04-18T02:00:23Z")
> [@MC Master of Ceremonies](#): > > It’s my belief that the photo is NOT a fake, the soldiers taught the boys to say things like “I f— your mother”, etc. I remember about 30 years ago, when the Minnesota Twins baseball team imported a player from Puerto Rico who spoke almost no English. He played 3rd base, next to an umpite, and his fellow players told him he should always greet the umpire politely, and they ‘helpedl’ him memorize some English phrases to say. Like: - “Good morning, f\*\*\* you very much.” - “Is beautiful day to sleep with your mother.” - “I hope you f\*\*\* up your calls today just like yesterday.” Luckily, the umpires knew that Zoilo didn’t speak much English, and quickly figured out what was going on. And they weren’t insulted; they found it real funny. ---
**Author:** ![sharth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/db5fbb/32.png) [@sharth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/50 "2004-04-18T16:34:19Z")
I just opened up the two images in gimp (photoshop like prorgam) and decided to look around to see how well it was photoshopped. The only thing that cought my attention and is leading me to believe that the unoffensive one is real, is if you zoom in on \this one\ then between the “knocked” and “up” words, you can see the remanents of what should be the my from “resuced my sister” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/51 "2004-04-18T16:46:31Z")
After reviewing everything yet again, I’m willing to bet hard money the offensive one is original. Incidentally, the Snopes article on the subject has Bourdeaux’s commander during the mission saying it was a poor attempt at humor. And perusing through my father’s Vietnam scrapbook, I must say that the picture seems pretty consistent with military humor, unless things have drastically changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/52 "2004-04-18T19:02:51Z")
> [@sjc](#): > > I don’t know enough about photo retouching to say much abou that aspect of the picture, but I can say a little the handwriting. I really don’t think either of the kids wrote the sign. If they know any writing system is is likely that they know arabic and not the roman alphabet. Since he either doesn’t know _any_ alphabet or knows a completely different alphabet, it seems like anything he wrote would be much much messier. > > I mean, if he didn’t know English how are you going to instruct him to write either sentence. It can be done, certainly, but it’s kind of a hassle and the end result is likely to be messy. I think probably he just wrote whatever message was actually on the cardboard and gave it to the kid. > > I’m actually of the opinion that both are fake and there was something else on there originally. > \*I suppose it _is_ possible that the kid knows English, but I don’t think so. The Arabic alphabit is much more ornate, and requires more precision than our alphabet. I would guess it’s quite easy to write in English from Arabic. To further prove my point, the vast majority of Chinese and Japanese people I know have superb handwriting. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/53 "2004-04-18T22:03:42Z")
I was going to say something about that Snopes article, but **pulykamell** beat me to it. They’re still calling it “Undetermined,” but it looks like Boudreaux’s commanding officer has confirmed that the offensive version is real, and that our boy the corporal is in troulble over it. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/54 "2004-04-21T22:44:34Z")
This just in from the Smoking Gun: [Boudreaux says it’s been altered.](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0419042iraq2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/55 "2004-04-22T14:34:25Z")
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but could anyone tell me what the Arabic text in the caption on the “bad” version says? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/56 "2004-04-22T19:27:44Z")
Unfortunately, **vibrotronica** , that cite contains no real information. Of _course_ the photo has been altered… We’ve known that since the first post of this thread. The question is not whether the photo has been altered, but which one is the original. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087/57 "2004-04-22T20:10:21Z")
Point taken, **Chronos** , but I had asked earlier (either in this thread or the one in the Pit) what Boudreaux was claiming. When I found the answer (or non-answer), I posted it. I found [this link](http://www.houmatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040421/NEWS/404210332/1026) over at MeFi. Some quotes from the article: > [@](#): > > “They were not the original. The original was in a group of photos he sent in the e-mail,” Gustafson said. “It said 'Welcome Marines’ or something like that. There was not anything unusual or offensive.” “Gustafson” is Boudreux’s mom. She has not been able to produce the email in question, however, claiming her computer was fried in an electrical storm. There may be a bona fide original still in existence, however: > [@](#): > > A nephew living in Houma, Gustafson said, received the alleged original photo as well. Contacted by The Courier Tuesday night, however, the young man declined to discuss the matter. So some kind of definitive answer could be out there. If the kid still has the original, why not make the email available, along with time stamp, routing information, etc., if it exhonorates his uncle? Here’s what the Marine in question has to say: > [@](#): > > “There is nothing really I can say,” Boudreaux said. “I will stand back and wait and hopefully let everything work itself out.” > The reservist did say the original photo was taken in the town of Al Kut, and he spoke of the many children his reserve unit made contact with while there. > “Plenty of times little kids would come up to us, we would be out in town or on patrol,” Boudreaux said. “We had (military “Meals Ready to Eat”) and Skittles and Starbursts and we would hand them out to the little kids.” I’m still in the “undecided, but leaning towards authentic” camp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-picture-of-the-soldier-with-the-iraqi-kids-a-hoax/240087.md?page=2)