# Is the Pope allowed to retire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 31, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109 "2005-03-31T20:53:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/21 "2005-04-01T23:48:49Z")
That would have to be a very long coma, if not a state of suspended animation. It would require a pope being elected at a relatively young age and then becoming incapicitated almost immediately and staying that way for decades. ---
**Author:** ![RachelNewstead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RachelNewstead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RachelNewstead)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/22 "2012-07-03T20:06:24Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > Or is the position for life, no matter what? I feel sorta bad for the guy, the way he’s carted around and propped up in front of windows. Surely he’d be better off if he didn’t have the stresses of being Pope along with the physical problems. > > Oh, and what if he’s permanently mentally incapacitated? Can he be relieved of duties or would the Vatican pull a “Woodrow Wilson”? Which raises yet another question–if a pope _does_ abdicate, what title does he hold, if any? Is he “demoted” back to cardinal? Is he considered something along the lines of a “pope emeritus?” Or does abdication entail leaving the clergy entirely, making him an ordinary layman? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/23 "2012-07-03T20:33:31Z")
I don’t think Cardinal is considered to be the precursor to Pope. Indeed, you don’t need to be a Cardinal, even if that is often de facto the case. They would not get defrocked unless they also did something bad. I don’t think bishop is even implied. Benedict IX - resigned (twice I believe) because he was a scumbag and did it for money. Not much record on him after he was completely done. Celestine V - preferred to be a hermit. Was later recalled, imprisoned, and possibly killed. I am going to assume that hermit = no position of power, safe no? Gregory XII - did so to keep the peace after the Western Schism, where there were two antipopes. “Peaceful obscurity” that suggests he probably didn’t participate in politics. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/24 "2012-07-03T20:37:00Z")
> [@RachelNewstead](#): > > Which raises yet another question–if a pope _does_ abdicate, what title does he hold, if any? Is he “demoted” back to cardinal? Is he considered something along the lines of a “pope emeritus?” Or does abdication entail leaving the clergy entirely, making him an ordinary layman? Just to let you know, you have responded to a seven year old thread. Some of the participants have moved on. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/25 "2012-07-03T20:41:29Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Just to let you know, you have responded to a seven year old thread. Some of the participants have moved on. So has the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/26 "2012-07-03T20:51:49Z")
The question is, if the Pope dies, then returns as a zombie, is he still Pope? Can the cardinals go on with the election process, or do they have to destroy his brain first? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/27 "2012-07-03T21:21:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The question is, if the Pope dies, then returns as a zombie, is he still Pope? Can the cardinals go on with the election process, or do they have to destroy his brain first? I think he would need to go to Confession, if not immediately then soon, because isn’t eating brains a mortal sin? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/28 "2012-07-03T22:04:54Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I think he would need to go to Confession, if not immediately then soon, because isn’t eating brains a mortal sin? Only during Lent, I think. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/29 "2012-07-03T22:22:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Only during Lent, I think. Fridays in Lent ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/30 "2012-07-04T03:51:41Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I don’t think Cardinal is considered to be the precursor to Pope. Indeed, you don’t need to be a Cardinal, even if that is often de facto the case. You don’t even need to be a priest, really. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/31 "2012-07-04T04:47:57Z")
I was responsible for the death of two Popes. If retirement was a possibility, that would have been a lot easier. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/32 "2012-07-04T05:08:30Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > So has the Pope. He hath ressurected. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/33 "2012-07-06T04:15:47Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > FTR, I believe the joke ran something like: > > Golfer 1 (on fairway in thunderstorm): Come and take shelter, you might get struck by lightning! > > Golfer 2: Nah don’t worry, even God can’t hit an iron! Not exactly. The club in question is the 1 iron, the iron club with the smallest face and flattest angle, and therefore the least loft – which means that it theoretically hits for the longest distance. Also called the driving iron, it’s virtually obsolete because its geometry makes it very hard to hit a good shot with it, and there are fairway wood clubs that will do just as well. Lee Trevino was nearly hit by lightning at the 1974 Western Open, and is reported to have said that if the same situation came up again, he’d hold his 1 iron in the air – “because not even God can hit a 1 iron.” ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/34 "2012-07-06T06:15:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The question is, if the Pope dies, then returns as a zombie, is he still Pope? Can the cardinals go on with the election process, or do they have to destroy his brain first? The traditional procedure was for the Papal Camerlengo to [smash the deceased Pope’s skull with a silver hammer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_conclave#Death_of_the_pope). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/35 "2012-07-06T12:21:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …Why? As long as he is lying in bed with no way to change his staff, everyone gets to keep their current jobs and power. Once he dies, the (younger) cardinals go into conclave and it is anyone’s guess who the next pope will be, thus jeopardizing the postions of any senior staff member who cannot absolutely guarantee the selection of next pope. (I will also preemptively note that three of the last four popes were a surprise to the political speculators, reducing the possibility that there is any “fix” in for the next pope. When you put dozens of powerful political guys together to take a vote, you will find that “controlling” them is rather more difficult than your typically wild-eyed conspiracist can really predict.) > > I know that it is fun to imagine all these grey eminences wandering about plotting murder and mayhem, but between the number of people involved who would actually morally oppose murder and the number of people whose jobs might be jeopardized by any skulduggery, such conspiracy theories are pretty silly. This is the most likely scenario. If the pope is incapacitated, they’ll prop him up and wheel him out, if possible, to make the odd (very odd) public appearance, thn trot him back to his little room, lock him up, and the grey eminences will run the show from behind the curtains. The pope appoints a mess of underlings to do various jobs, the equivalent of secretary of state, secretary of finance, etc. plus deputy head for the college of cardinals. These guys stay in their jobs, and unless a real vicious office politics infighting breaks out, they run things quietly and without making waves or setting out on significant policy changes, and everything coasts until it is time for fresh blood (fresh brains?). the pope’s implied number two man will run the show. I suppose the Vatican’s worst nightmare is Alzheimers, a physically strong and capable pope with diminished mental capacity and erratic behaviour. Again, the back rooms recognize this and would take the same steps. The guys who used to share a beer with the pope when they were back in the College of Cardinals together are not going to suddenly defer to him, even as a raving looney just because he’s pope. They will recognize he’s having “issues” and take the necessary steps to prevent him from damaging himself or the church’s reputation. (Similar to King George III, I assume). The biggest danger is when he is slipping away but the significance of the problem is still unclear… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/36 "2012-07-06T12:59:44Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I don’t think Cardinal is considered to be the precursor to Pope. Indeed, you don’t need to be a Cardinal, even if that is often de facto the case. > [@jayjay](#): > > You don’t even need to be a priest, really. Not quite – there is a nuance. The Code of Canon Law, Can. 332 ß1, provides that the newly-elected Pope acquires full and supreme power in the Church when, _together with episcopal consecration_, he has been lawfully elected and has accepted the election. This means he must be a bishop in order to become Pope. It does not, however, prevent the cardinals from electing any baptized male. If the College of Cardinals should happen to choose someone who did not already “have the episcopal character,” canon law requires that the man elected is immediately to be ordained as bishop. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/37 "2012-07-06T14:10:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not quite – there is a nuance. > > The Code of Canon Law, Can. 332 ß1, provides that the newly-elected Pope acquires full and supreme power in the Church when, _together with episcopal consecration_, he has been lawfully elected and has accepted the election. This means he must be a bishop in order to become Pope. > > It does not, however, prevent the cardinals from electing any baptized male. If the College of Cardinals should happen to choose someone who did not already “have the episcopal character,” canon law requires that the man elected is immediately to be ordained as bishop. Yes, but that’s after-the-fact of the actual election. If the spirit moves the College to elect Giuseppe Bagadonutsi the shepherd boy as Pope, he would be slated to be ordained and consecrated, but they still elected Giuseppe Bagadonutsi, the shepherd boy, not Giuseppe Bagadonutsi the priest/bishop/cardinal. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/38 "2012-07-06T14:36:40Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The traditional procedure was for the Papal Camerlengo to [smash the deceased Pope’s skull with a silver hammer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_conclave#Death_of_the_pope). I know this was a whoosh, but do they still really and truly tap a pope on the head with a hammer to see if he’s still alive? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/39 "2012-07-06T14:38:05Z")
> [@RachelNewstead](#): > > Which raises yet another question–if a pope _does_ abdicate, what title does he hold, if any? Is he “demoted” back to cardinal? Is he considered something along the lines of a “pope emeritus?” Or does abdication entail leaving the clergy entirely, making him an ordinary layman? I don’t think there is one. Or at least wasn’t one in the late Medieval period, which was sort of the hey-day of ex-popes and ex-anti-popes. When the anti-pope John XXIII (not to be confused with the more modern pope of the same name) was forced to resign, he went to Florence where the Medici for various reasons wanted to legitimize his former papacy. When he died, to reinforce the fact that he’d been a ‘real’ pope before resigning, they put “former pope (“quondam papa”) John XXIII” on his tomb instead of just “Cardinal John”. Presumably if there was a standard title for ex-popes, they would’ve used that instead of the somewhat awkward sounding “former pope”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109/40 "2012-07-06T14:51:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I know this was a whoosh, but do they still really and truly tap a pope on the head with a hammer to see if he’s still alive? No, but the Pope is still declared dead by the Camerlengo rather than by a doctor. Of course, the Camerlengo does so based on what the doctors say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-pope-allowed-to-retire/297109.md?page=3)