# Is the President calling out the National Guard constitutional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369 "2025-06-09T14:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/21 "2025-06-09T23:59:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The commanders of the militias, of course. Who are, in most circumstances (probably all, but I don’t want to check all 50 states’ laws), the various governors. So a state official has the authority to exercise a federal power? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/22 "2025-06-10T00:09:20Z")
A state official has the authority to place their militia under federal control. Once they’ve done that, that militia is now (ultimately) under the President’s command. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/23 "2025-06-10T00:38:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > the prez doesn’t have the power to call the militias into the “actual service of the United States”, who does? > > The commanders of the militias, of course. Who are, in most circumstances (probably all, but I don’t want to check all 50 states’ laws), the various governors. Again, the President does actually have authority to call up the National Guard and state militias. This is not a matter of opinion; it is statute law: > [10 U.S. Code § 252 - Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority > _Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion._](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/252) > [10 U.S. Code § 253 - Interference with State and Federal law > _The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it— > (1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or > (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws._](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/253) Although still under notional control of the state governor, the President can issue a proclamation for “insurgents” to disperse: > [10 U.S. Code § 254 - Proclamation to disperse > _Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes within a limited time._](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/254) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/24 "2025-06-10T00:54:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Again, the President does actually have authority to call up the National Guard and state militias. This is not a matter of opinion; it is statute law: The question is not is it a law. The question is is that law Constitutional? Or are there implementations of that law that violate the 10th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/25 "2025-06-10T00:56:20Z")
And to be clear, yes, I know that courts have found that law Constitutional. Courts sometimes get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/26 "2025-06-10T01:36:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The question is not is it a law. The question is is that law Constitutional? Or are there implementations of that law that violate the 10th Amendment. Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the US Constitution gives the Congress the authority to: > _To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;_ Congress for its part delegated that authority to the executive in federal statute law: > **[Power to Call Forth the Militia](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-8/clause-15/power-to-call-forth-the-militia)** [https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C15-1/ALDE\_00001077/](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C15-1/ALDE_00001077/) This power has been argued before the Supreme Court, particularly in [_Houston v. Moore_](https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep018/usrep018001/usrep018001.pdf) with the court concurring with federal authority to call up the militia. Now, we can discuss whether this particular activation was actually justified per various interpretations of the statute (I would argue that it does not meet the criteria in 10 U.S. Code § 252 but have to acknowledged that there is exists a legitimate line of argument that the actions of the protestors comprise “unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States”) but there is no question that the President has authority to activate the National Guard. It should be noted that California, like many states, also has a separate militia organization in the [California State Guard](https://calguard.ca.gov/csg/) which is distinct from the Army National Guard and Air National Guard, but statute doesn’t make a distinction between federally-supported state militia and the distinct state function. > [@Chronos](#): > > And to be clear, yes, I know that courts have found that law Constitutional. Courts sometimes get it wrong. Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it is ‘wrong’. The Supreme Court has [made plenty of bad decisions](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/supreme-court/13-worst-supreme-court-decisions-of-all-time/) in its history but when they adjudicate the interpretation of a law or the application of a legal principle within the bounds of the Constitution, they are _by definition_ the ultimate authority on the matter. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/27 "2025-06-10T01:49:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; Then we are on very dangerous ground that invoking the first amendment right to protest is now considered insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/28 "2025-06-10T01:57:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it is ‘wrong’. The Supreme Court has [made plenty of bad decisions](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/supreme-court/13-worst-supreme-court-decisions-of-all-time/) in its history but when they adjudicate the interpretation of a law or the application of a legal principle within the bounds of the Constitution, they are _by definition_ the ultimate authority on the matter. And just because you agree with something doesn’t make it right. The Supreme Court is, as you say, authoritative. That’s also not the same thing as right. The Court has, after all, reversed itself on occasion: In every such occasion, it must have been wrong one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/29 "2025-06-10T02:04:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Then we are on very dangerous ground that invoking the first amendment right to protest is now considered insurrection. Well, you have a First Amendment right to ‘legitimate’ political expression. Committing acts of vandalism and impeding the (legal if morally objectionable) actions of federal authorities are acts of civil disobedience go beyond what is generally considered political expression. Of course, Americans have long tolerated more restrictive measures on actual expression, i.e. moving political protests into ‘designated zones’ often a mile or more from the event in question so we were already well down that path long before Trump got a bee in his bonnet to take a ride down the golden escalator. But (in my opinion) this exaggerated response doesn’t have anything to do with quelling dissent; the actual purpose is to create spectacle and even foment a violent response which could ‘justify’ greater federal authority. > [@Chronos](#): > > And just because you agree with something doesn’t make it right. The Supreme Court is, as you say, authoritative. That’s also not the same thing as right. The Court has, after all, reversed itself on occasion: In every such occasion, it must have been wrong one of those times. The Supreme Court is _by definition_ the arbiter of what is or is not “Constitutional” and whether or not the Court reverses a decision later, it is “Constitutional” at that time. In the case of authority over calling up militia it is an enumerated power within the text of the US Constitution so this isn’t even subject to interpretation about whether it is or is not a federal prerogative. There is literally no debate here other than the question of whether the justification of invoking the particular statute meets the intent of the statute granting the authority to the President to call up the militia. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/30 "2025-06-10T16:53:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The necessity of the militia. The whole point of a militia is that it’s not under the control of the federal government. The Second Amendment doesn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/31 "2025-06-13T18:34:06Z")
Isn’t it more like the Federal government can “call up” the National Guard, at which point it becomes part of the Army for all intents and purposes? (not wanting to get into the whole NG, Regular Army, Army of the United States business). When it’s not Federalized, its units are the armed forces of their respective States, and are under the command of their State’s Governor. Where I understand the problem in California is that the NG can absolutely be called out to quell civil unrest, but **only by the State governor** , as while they’re under State command, they’re not subject to the _Posse Comitatus Act_. And the President can Federalize NG units at will, but can’t deploy them anywhere the Federal military can’t be deployed, which in this case, would be Los Angeles. The USMC has to follow the same rules FWIW. Here’s the text of [10 USC 12406](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title10-section12406&num=0&edition=prelim), which is the law Trump broke according to _Newsom v. Trump_, presumably by not actually having Newsom cut the orders for the California NG. (italicized section below) > Whenever- > > (1) the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation; > > (2) there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or > > (3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States; > > the President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws. _Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States or, in the case of the District of Columbia, through the commanding general of the National Guard of the District of Columbia._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/32 "2025-06-13T19:37:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Isn’t it more like the Federal government can “call up” the National Guard, at which point it becomes part of the Army for all intents and purposes? AFAIK, this is correct. But then the NG soldiers get active duty pay, benefits etc. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/33 "2025-06-30T19:21:13Z")
Still an open question thanks to 9th Circuit Court dithering: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/eG0hSsJ_4pE/maxresdefault.jpg "Oops, You CAN Use the Military Against Americans") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0hSsJ_4pE) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/34 "2025-09-02T14:17:47Z")
Federal judge in San Francisco rules use of national Guard in SoCal broke federal law. Breaking news so the article doesn’t say much more than that. > **[Trump’s use of National Guard during Los Angeles immigration protests is...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/trumps-use-of-national-guard-during-los-angeles-immigration-protests-is-illegal-a-judge-rules/)** > > A federal judge ruled Tuesday that the Trump administration violated federal law in the use of National Guard troops amid Southern California immigration enforcement operations and accompanying protests. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/35 "2025-09-02T14:28:03Z")
Yet the Guard remains in LA. These rulings against Trump accompanied by zero compliance or consequences barely even qualify as news anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/36 "2025-09-03T03:43:36Z")
If the [Fat Orange Monster](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNyhJi6ZM6k/) sends troops to Chicago, particularly this weekend with Mexican Independence Day celebrations ongoing, I predict there will be consequences. Violent, bloody and fatal consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/37 "2025-09-03T11:00:36Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Violent, bloody and fatal consequences. That is really what this regime wants; aside from conditioning the public to see domestic military deployments as normalized, they want a ‘Reichstag Fire’ moment to justify further expansion of federal authority and takeover of opposition-run cities and arrest of defiant protestors and even politicians. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/38 "2025-09-03T15:42:53Z")
Agreed. I have said several times since January they want this to happen so they can invoke the Insurrection Act and impose martial law in the cities controlled by Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/39 "2025-09-08T00:17:13Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That is really what this regime wants; aside from conditioning the public to see domestic military deployments as normalized, they want a ‘Reichstag Fire’ moment to justify further expansion of federal authority and takeover of opposition-run cities and arrest of defiant protestors and even politicians. They already got that with the killing of the congressional intern. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369/40 "2025-09-08T00:38:40Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > They already got that with the killing of the congressional intern. Not really big enough to justify bringing out the Marines. It was hard enough to justify sending in troops to downtown LA for what amounted to a two square block protest with some criminal vandalism and burning a few cars, which is basically what happens anytime a sportsball team wins a championship or pennant in Los Angeles. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-president-calling-out-the-national-guard-constitutional/1019369.md?page=3)