# Is the progressive era in the USA over? Another Trump thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475 "2016-11-30T17:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/21 "2016-12-01T18:29:17Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I believe Trump supporters will end feeling betrayed, embarrassed, and let down in so many ways that the country will be willing to try the progressives as a lesser of two evils. Sorry buddy. I’m not one to jump on the bandwagon of “Trump supporters are idiots”, but I don’t see them backtracking, admitting error, or changing sides. Their analysis 4 years (or 8 years) from now will be that Trump isn’t a REAL conservative. This “real conservative” BS will never be over until somebody like Ted Cruz gets elected. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/22 "2016-12-01T18:38:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I find it hard to believe he will get much if any of his ridiculous populist agenda through even a Republican controled house and senate, especially when the Dems will be pretty unified in opposing him. The populist agenda was simply vote getting gimmicks. It has nothing to do with how he will govern. How he will govern is simply a very right wing Republican approach which will agree with the House and Senate except in minor details. If you don’t believe this look at his Cabinet and other high level appointments. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/23 "2016-12-01T19:02:00Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The populist agenda was simply vote getting gimmicks. It has nothing to do with how he will govern. How he will govern is simply a very right wing Republican approach which will agree with the House and Senate except in minor details. > > If you don’t believe this look at his Cabinet and other high level appointments. What specific policies would you define as “the populist agenda” that he campaigned on? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/24 "2016-12-01T21:18:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure there were posts here that HRC did exactly this before the debates. And it seemed to work pretty well; Congress and whatever national mouthpieces for non-Trumpist policies need to take heed and do the same things. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/25 "2016-12-01T22:54:46Z")
Trump’s election is not really a return to hard-right politics. Sure, he has some conservative positions\* but he has some moderate ones as well. E.g. his opposition to any and all trade agreements has traditionally been a liberal position. (\* - If we pretend he actually cares about the positions he has espoused.) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/26 "2016-12-02T00:52:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Hopefully. > Hopefully as well. Why to both? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/27 "2016-12-02T01:06:19Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Why to both? Because I don’t think either of those are Constitutional issues for the Supreme Court to properly decide. They should be left up to the individual states, or the people. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/28 "2016-12-02T04:28:09Z")
Is marriage normally a states issue? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/29 "2016-12-02T05:46:17Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Is marriage normally a states issue? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/30 "2016-12-02T13:42:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Because I don’t think either of those are Constitutional issues for the Supreme Court to properly decide. They should be left up to the individual states, or the people. The 14th Amendment says " No State shall…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." As part of the Constitution, this is enforced by the federal courts. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/31 "2016-12-02T16:28:08Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > OK. Try this on for apocalyptic.: [Trump casts doubt on whether the US would always support NATO allies](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-issues.html?_r=0) in case of an attack. He says he doesn’t want Russia to know how he might respond, _ **but this is exactly the entire point of the treaty** _. Despite his dithering and walkbacks on these foolish comments, he’s already increased the risk of military miscalculation and escalation. I would note that Hillary, the ‘progressive’ choice wanted to create no-fly zones over Syria, that would be enforced by US jets shooting down any other aircraft that flew in the zone, which in practice would mean Russian aircraft. Threatening to directly attack the military forces of another nuclear power is not exactly trying to avoid a nuclear war, and I think it’s actually a bit more risky than some slamming on NATO that’s not even a policy position and that he’ll probably completely forget about by the time he takes office. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/32 "2016-12-02T16:46:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The 14th Amendment says " No State shall…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." > > As part of the Constitution, this is enforced by the federal courts. Yes. How does this implicate Roe v Wade? Oh, I see! You mean that all persons, both born and unborn, deserve equal protection? Interesting idea! I like it!! Or did you mean something else? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/33 "2016-12-02T16:51:37Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I would note that Hillary, the ‘progressive’ choice wanted to create no-fly zones over Syria, that would be enforced by US jets shooting down any other aircraft that flew in the zone, which in practice would mean Russian aircraft. Threatening to directly attack the military forces of another nuclear power is not exactly trying to avoid a nuclear war, There’s no reason to think Hillary would have created no-fly zones without considering the risk of Russian forces in the area. > [@](#): > > and I think it’s actually a bit more risky than some slamming on NATO that’s not even a policy position and that he’ll probably completely forget about by the time he takes office. Trump may forget it, but I guarantee Putin won’t. And this need not be a policy decision to have serious ramifications, because it highlights how he might make executive decisions in a crisis situation. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/34 "2016-12-02T17:35:14Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There’s no reason to think Hillary would have created no-fly zones without considering the risk of Russian forces in the area. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean; the whole point of no-fly zones would be to stop the Russians from flying with the threat of shooting them down. It’s not about a ‘risk of Russian forces in the area’, it’s a policy directed exactly at the Russian forces in the area telling them to comply with her demands or be shot down. Part of the problem with ‘progressives’ is that they tend to decide ‘this is our person’, then ignore anything bad that person does. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/35 "2016-12-02T17:49:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. How does this implicate Roe v Wade? > > Oh, I see! You mean that all persons, both born and unborn, deserve equal protection? > > Interesting idea! I like it!! > > Or did you mean something else? Oh, I just meant the marriage issue, which was discussed in the posts preceding mine. Apologies for the lack of clarity. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/36 "2016-12-02T17:51:15Z")
“[Right now, Senator, for us to control all of the air space in Syria would require us to go to war against Syria and Russia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmE9Jj-rEVs).” - General Joseph Dunford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/37 "2016-12-02T17:54:11Z")
Human Action, on the marriage issue, if one state passes a law that says someone has to wait until they are 18 to be married, and another passes a law that they can do so at 16, without parental consent, do you see that as a violation of the 14th Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/38 "2016-12-02T18:03:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Human Action, on the marriage issue, if one state passes a law that says someone has to wait until they are 18 to be married, and another passes a law that they can do so at 16, without parental consent, do you see that as a violation of the 14th Amendment? No. That’s not really analogous to the actual issue, though. The issue is equal protection within the state(s), not between them. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/39 "2016-12-02T18:12:55Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I have no idea what this is supposed to mean; the whole point of no-fly zones would be to stop the Russians from flying with the threat of shooting them down. It’s not about a ‘risk of Russian forces in the area’, it’s a policy directed exactly at the Russian forces in the area telling them to comply with her demands or be shot down Your characterization is simply wrong. Hillary never suggested unilaterally imposing a no-fly zone or threatening Russian forces. Here’s one of her quotes on the matter. (bolding mine) [QUOTE=Hillary Clinton] “I am well aware of the really legitimate concerns you have expressed from both the president and the general,” **Clinton responded. “This would not be done just on the first day. This would take a lot of negotiation.** It would also take making it clear to the Russians and the Syrians that our purpose here was to provide safe zones on the ground.” [/quote] > [@](#): > > Part of the problem with ‘progressives’ is that they tend to decide ‘this is our person’, then ignore anything bad that person does… :rolleyes: Part of the problem with ‘regressives’ is that they are uninterested in distinguishing between fact and fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475/40 "2016-12-02T18:18:53Z")
To get back to the OP, the progressive movement isn’t going away. It’ll either 1) outlast its opponents through waiting and biding its time, or 2) evolve to make itself more appealing. Most progressives seem to favor approach 1#, waiting for conservatives to die out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-progressive-era-in-the-usa-over-another-trump-thread/773475.md?page=3)