# Is the real health care disaster yet to come? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269 "2013-11-19T16:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/81 "2013-12-07T22:13:32Z")
I think this falls into the same category as all those people who said that if Clinton (or Bush) were elected, they’d renounced their citizenship and move abroad. Yeah, sure… For one thing, what would all these doctors do for income? A very few can become private doctors to very rich client-patients. But there aren’t that many Michael Jacksons out there. (And Michael Jackson learned the hard way that having a private doctor is not a certain road to good medical care!) Also: is denying medical care to millions of people a good way to make a political point? Is it supposed to make us all say, “Oh, gosh, yes, we must elect Republicans now, who will fix things the way they used to be?” Do the Republicans have an alternative plan to offer that will actually provide care to people? So far, all of their efforts seem to be to deny care to people, and this boycott (if it develops, and I’m betting it won’t) is just one example. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/82 "2013-12-07T23:03:07Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I think this falls into the same category as all those people who said that if Clinton (or Bush) were elected, they’d renounced their citizenship and move abroad. Yeah, sure… > > For one thing, what would all these doctors do for income? You have this mistaken idea that Obamacare policies constitute a huge percentage of the market. > [@](#): > > Also: is denying medical care to millions of people a good way to make a political point? It’s not a political point. It’s simply “you don’t pay me enough, I won’t work for you”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/83 "2013-12-07T23:29:45Z")
So, if obamacare is a rousing success does that make it that much harder to get single payer healthcare? Cause ultimately that is where we need to end up, this was just supposed to be a step in that direction. It seems like having near universal insurance coverage might take away any urgency from making that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/84 "2013-12-07T23:54:59Z")
**DigitalC** : yes, ultimately, if Obamacare works well, it will take longer for the U.S. to move to a fully nationalized system. But…that’s kind of okay. If “half measures” work well enough, they’re acceptable. That’s the nature of the U.S.: half-assed compromises are how we do things at our best! Good governance involves seeing a problem and addressing it with an effort at remediation. The U.S. sees a problem, and waits forty years, before slapping a patch over it and declaring victory. It’s our glory. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/85 "2013-12-08T01:01:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You have this mistaken idea that Obamacare policies constitute a huge percentage of the market. > It’s not a political point. It’s simply “you don’t pay me enough, I won’t work for you”. Many tens of thousands of people have already enrolled in Covered California, and that’s just one state. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/86 "2013-12-08T01:52:10Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Many tens of thousands of people have already enrolled in Covered California, and that’s just one state. Yes, and I am sure those tens of thousands of people will be thrilled when they find out that 70% of doctors they call don’t accept Obamacare. And will be really thankful to Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/87 "2013-12-08T02:05:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, and I am sure those tens of thousands of people will be thrilled when they find out that 70% of doctors they call don’t accept Obamacare. And will be really thankful to Democrats. I already know that my doctor accepts the plan I chose. That’s enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/88 "2013-12-08T02:14:35Z")
Also, one of the participating insurers in Covered California is Kaiser Permanente. They were several of my choices when I signed up for a plan last week. They must employ thousands of doctors all by themselves, who clearly will now accept their own plans. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/89 "2013-12-08T02:14:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, and I am sure those tens of thousands of people will be thrilled when they find out that 70% of doctors they call don’t accept Obamacare. And will be really thankful to Democrats. When the alternative is no insurance, being able to see 30% of doctors sounds quite nice. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/90 "2013-12-08T02:14:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, and I am sure those tens of thousands of people will be thrilled when they find out that 70% of doctors they call don’t accept Obamacare. They don’t have to call, they can just look on the insurance provider’s website. There are hundreds of doctors within 20 miles who accept plans approved for Obamacare, all accepting new patients. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/91 "2013-12-08T02:53:48Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > When the alternative is no insurance, being able to see 30% of doctors sounds quite nice. I know, the slogans just write themselves, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/92 "2013-12-08T02:55:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > They don’t have to call, they can just look on the insurance provider’s website. There are hundreds of doctors within 20 miles who accept plans approved for Obamacare, all accepting new patients. I know. Seven pediatricians in the county should be enough for everyone. Or nine dermatologists, most 100 miles away. Way better than nothing, right? As I said, the slogans just write themselves. Tiered health care - first class for some, second class for Obamacare enrollees. Brought to you by Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/93 "2013-12-08T03:00:12Z")
An interesting take from this doctor named David Belk, claims some considerable expertise in different models of health care systems. He is dong questions and answers at this website called “Readit” or something like that. Struck especially by this answer to a question about which nation’s health care system works best. > [@](#): > > Every possible system will have its flaws. What makes our system so unique is that it seems to found a way to have all the flaws of every other health care system while avoiding any of the benefits. There’s too much material to quote at any reasonable length, so I offer the link and encourage. Joe Bob **'luc** says “Check it out!” [http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1sbwz8/i\_am\_david\_belk\_im\_a\_doctor\_who\_has\_spent\_years/](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1sbwz8/i_am_david_belk_im_a_doctor_who_has_spent_years/) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/94 "2013-12-08T03:01:46Z")
That 70% number is likely a RW media lie that got mistaken for a fact. Why not wait a few days to see if the talking point stands up to scrutiny? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/95 "2013-12-08T03:39:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, and I am sure those tens of thousands of people will be thrilled when they find out that 70% of doctors they call don’t accept Obamacare. And will be really thankful to Democrats. I’m thankful to Democrats already, for the end of the “pre-existing conditions” bar. As can quip about the slogans (although you use slogans a lot yourself) but the fact is, I can get insurance now, and couldn’t before the ACA. Meanwhile, I blame the Republicans for constantly trying to sabotage this. > [@Lobohan](#): > > That 70% number is likely a RW media lie that got mistaken for a fact. . . . I’ve been searching, trying to find a rebuttal, but so far, all I see are articles stating it as if factual. I’m sure a good researcher could find the point of origin, and I’m pretty doggone sure it’s RW garbage. And, besides, it just doesn’t work on the face of it. It’s like imagining that a grocery store would boycott customers who are on food stamps. Yeah? You’re going to turn away that much money? You’re going to develop a negative public image? Absurd. It doesn’t happen. To be blunt, it sounds like Benghazi-gate all over again. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/96 "2013-12-08T03:50:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An interesting take from this doctor named David Belk, claims some considerable expertise in different models of health care systems. He is dong questions and answers at this website called “Readit” or something like that. Struck especially by this answer to a question about which nation’s health care system works best. He also has his own [website](http://truecostofhealthcare.org/) and has been [blogging](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-belk/) at HuffPost too. I have not read it all, but it seems worth a read. Pretty damning take on US health care, reformed or not. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/97 "2013-12-08T05:00:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That 70% number is likely a RW media lie that got mistaken for a fact. > > Why not wait a few days to see if the talking point stands up to scrutiny? One thing to bear in mind is that there is not one single “Obamacare” plan. There are lots of plans, offered by different companies, with different premiums and different benefits. Not every doctor necessarily wants to participate with every plan. But that doesn’t mean they want to “boycott” Obamacare overall. For example, in my own case I want to keep my doctor and the medical group he belongs to. So I went to their web site and it listed the Obamacare (actually Covered California) plans they accept. There were still enough for a reasonable selection of plans, and I was able to make sure that I got to keep my doctor. So if someone first chooses a plan and then wants to keep their doctor they may be out of luck. But if they go they other way around they should find a plan that will work for them – at least in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/98 "2013-12-08T11:56:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know. Seven pediatricians in the county should be enough for everyone. Or nine dermatologists, most 100 miles away. Funny how that is an outrage with dermatologists, but not abortion providers… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/99 "2013-12-09T04:48:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know. Seven pediatricians in the county should be enough for everyone. Or nine dermatologists, most 100 miles away. Way better than nothing, right? As I said, the slogans just write themselves. > > Tiered health care - first class for some, second class for Obamacare enrollees. Brought to you by Democrats. Inferior healthcare is better than no healthcare at all. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269/100 "2013-12-09T04:54:18Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Inferior healthcare is better than no healthcare at all. Another great election slogan for Democrats. Run with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-health-care-disaster-yet-to-come/674269.md?page=6)