# Is the Real ID requirement for travel constitutional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 11, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495 "2024-12-11T15:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/21 "2024-12-12T16:25:04Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > > [@JRDelirious](#): > > > > So the ID would tell whoever was the federal official looking at it that the Maryland MVA or Puerto Rico DTOP had looked at your passport/birth certificate/Green Card/utility bills. > > It doesn’t even do that in practice, as enforcement at the state and local level seems to be variable. I have what I assume TSA officials will accept as a Real ID-compliant license, as it has the star symbol on it, but when I went to the DMV to get it – which I waited to do until my license was due to be renewed anyway – nobody even _looked_ at my passport, social security card, and utility bills, although I brought them. They did seem to look at the documents for people who came specifically to replace an unexpired license with a Real ID-compliant one, but regular renewals just seemed to get the star automatically, no questions asked. Maybe that has changed but when I applied for a Real ID in 2019 I had to bring all kinds of documentation including my original certified marriage and divorce decrees because my surname did not match my birth certificate. They looked at and made copies of everything. I am in rural Pennsylvania for reference. Not sure how it is handled currently but that was my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/22 "2024-12-12T16:42:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Many countries that have a lot of their citizens in the US **will** provide consular services for them without asking for their status vis-a-vis the USA That wasn’t my point. My point was 1. US passports cost a chunk of change. I’m sure other countries charge as well. 2. Do the immigrants have all of the documentation they need? 3. Is the person close enough to a consulate to get there? ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/23 "2024-12-12T16:50:24Z")
> [@Ellecram](#): > > Not sure how it is handled currently but that was my experience. Just got my Real ID license in AZ at my first old person license renewal last month. They definitely looked at and scanned all the documents I brought - old driver’s license, passport, and bank statement. And charged an extra $25 for Real ID. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/24 "2024-12-12T16:53:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But I believe the equal protection clause applies to all residents whether here legally or illegally. I’m still not convinced there’s any constitutional issue here. Why would ID requirements (showing legality of status in the US) to fly be a problem with the equal protection clause? Please spell out your argument a bit further for us. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/25 "2024-12-12T17:06:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Air travel is not a constitutional right. I question this. Perhaps courts have ruled that the right to travel does not include air travel, but that does not seem reasonable. Other rights are not limited because of new technology. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/26 "2024-12-12T17:07:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m still not convinced there’s any constitutional issue here. Why would ID requirements (showing legality of status in the US) to fly be a problem with the equal protection clause? Please spell out your argument a bit further for us. Because SCOTUS has held the equal protection clause applies to all residents whether here legally or illegally. So for the Federal government to say that a resident (yes you don’t have to admit you reside in the US but let’s take the law on it’s face) needs a document that only a citizen or lawful resident can get. EXCEPT as others have noted they could use their foreign passport if they have one. Is that unreasonable though? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/27 "2024-12-12T17:09:56Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I question this. Perhaps courts have ruled that the right to travel does not include air travel, but that does not seem reasonable. Other rights are not limited because of new technology. This is something that both SovCits and critics of SovCits mess up. The right to travel only refers to crossing state lines AND as a privilege and immunity only is guarantied to US citizens under the Constitution. This means that a state cannot put up impediments for you to travel/move into or out of their state. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/28 "2024-12-12T17:12:06Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > > > Again YES. When have you ever had to prove where you reside when boarding a flight? > > If TSA is doing their job (OK, I admit unrealistic) then they will be asking innocuous to see your reaction. One could be, “Where do you live?” This has never happened once in all my years of air travel and dealing with TSA agents. NOT. ONCE. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/29 "2024-12-12T17:12:09Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > As for constitutionality, I would expect the current Supreme Court to back up the incoming administration. Maybe? It’s often Republicans pushing back against universal government documentation. They’re the ones who blocked national ID cards. But maybe they’ve gotten onboard with the idea after going for voter identification. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/30 "2024-12-12T17:13:43Z")
The whole security apparatus built around airline travel is probably unconstitutional (or at least extraconstitutional), but as usual the limitations of strict federalism have been bypassed by clever sophistry. In the case of airline travel it’s done by having the airlines refuse service to people who don’t meet the requirements, but that refusal is mandated by the federal laws licensing commercial air travel. IOW the airlines as supposedly private businesses serve as the government’s catspaw. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/31 "2024-12-12T17:18:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The right to travel only refers to crossing state lines AND as a privilege and immunity only is guarantied to US citizens under the Constitution. This means that a state cannot put up impediments for you to travel/move into or out of their state. Yes. And that’s what is unreasonable. Because the right to travel is not explicitly in the Constitution, it’s just a patchwork of laws. The federal and state governments shouldn’t be able to restrict movement by air more than by any other method. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/32 "2024-12-12T17:25:07Z")
The thing about air travel is that under pre-1920s laws property rights extended up to the Andromeda Galaxy; this would have made air travel effectively impossible. So airspace above a certain height was placed under federal regulation. Either the federal government has the authority to regulate air travel, or else get permission from every property owner on your route to pass over their land. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/33 "2024-12-12T17:26:06Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The whole security apparatus built around airline travel is probably unconstitutional (or at least extraconstitutional), but as usual the limitations of strict federalism have been bypassed by clever sophistry. If I can rephrase your post: Yeah they violate your rights but the courts rulings are, “Fuck you!” OK, I can get behind that analysis. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Either the federal government has the authority to regulate air travel, or else get permission from every property owner on your route to pass over their land. I’m sure with the overextension of the commerce clause, today that would be the rationale. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/34 "2024-12-12T17:33:57Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Perhaps courts have ruled that the right to travel does not include air travel, but that does not seem reasonable. Courts have ruled that you can’t drive without a driver’s license. In many states, undocumented people can’t get a DL. I don’t see how airplane travel adds anything to the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/35 "2024-12-12T17:48:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Courts have ruled that you can’t drive without a driver’s license. In many states, undocumented people can’t get a DL. I don’t see how airplane travel adds anything to the equation. Sigh Again right to travel is the right to cross state lines. It has nothing to do with travel within a state so driver’s licenses or not engaged in commerce has nothing to do with right to travel. An airplane on the other hand does if you are crossing state lines, but the 14th Amendment only guaranties the right to travel to citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/36 "2024-12-12T17:48:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Courts have ruled that you can’t drive without a driver’s license. It’s reasonable to license the operation of a dangerous vehicle. But one doesn’t need any identification to be a passenger in a car. Nor being a passenger on a bus, train, ferry, etc. Requiring an air passenger to have identification is different. We could have all the safety and security on aircraft that we currently do, just without an identification requirement. The ID doesn’t prevent the carrying of dangerous devices; those are checked for directly. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/37 "2024-12-12T18:15:08Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Requiring an air passenger to have identification is different. Sophistry again: iirc the airlines are required to make you produce identification to _allow you on the plane_; travel itself is a different matter. The basic principle is “if you can fly by flapping your arms, go for it; otherwise, if you need to fly an aircraft through national airspace, **here are the rules** ”. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/38 "2024-12-12T18:44:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > > > The answer would be YES but they most likely already possess a valid passport for their country of citizenship. > > What? How many Americans have their passport? According to the US Dept of State there are 169,915,821 valid US passports as of 2024. That works out to be 51% of the population. That’s a larger number than 20 years ago but far less than the 76% of people in the UK who have a passport. As was mentioned by another poster, many countries allow citizens living abroad to go to an embassy or consulate in the country where they reside to renew a passport. They likely had one when they entered the foreign country where they reside. Mexico and Guatemala are two such countries as are most European ones. It only took a few minutes of searching online to find this info. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That is a huge assumption considering there are those on this board that insist many Americans cannot gather the necessary documents and afford an ID to vote, yet you think a broke-ass family living in the US illegally can just walk into the Guatamalan embassy across the street from their house and get a passport? You are correct there is a cost associated with getting a passport and documentation some may find difficult to obtain. In the US it costs $130 to get one. With it being valid for 10 years that works out to be $13 per annum. I don’t think it would be much more for other countries so even a “broke-ass Guatemalan family” could probably save up to get that done. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/39 "2024-12-12T21:49:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Someone here illegally cannot get a US passport so again, would they have to get a passport from their country of citizenship and not reveal they reside in the United States? Sure, but if they go to a consulate, they could reveal that to that nation. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That is a huge assumption considering there are those on this board that insist many Americans cannot gather the necessary documents and afford an ID to vote, Because in many cases in certain states, they are trying to make things as difficult as possible to get that ID. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > yet you think a broke-ass family living in the US illegally can just walk into the Guatamalan embassy across the street from their house and get a passport? Which nation is likely not trying to stop minorities from voting, so the procedure may be cheaper and easier. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > So the ID would tell whoever was the federal official looking at it that the Maryland MVA or Puerto Rico DTOP had looked at your passport/birth certificate/Green Card/utility bills. And why would they care? > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Many countries that have a lot of their citizens in the US **will** provide consular services for them without asking for their status vis-a-vis the USA ( Right. I only had extra stuff done by TSA when I had been released from my detail early, had a ticket for 8PM, but now it was 2PM at the airport, so they nicely got me on an easier flight, but TSA checked me extra carefully, including devices that sniff out explosives. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495/40 "2024-12-12T22:01:31Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Again right to travel is the right to cross state lines. I get that, but there’s nothing that says you have the right to avail yourself of any and all means of transportation. If they can get on a bus without showing ID then their right to travel is protected. Additionally, I don’t think producing a valid ID is a constitutional block, since everyone (except some stateless people) have the ability to procure a passport which meets the requirements. I admit, that’s an assumption on my part, is it true in reality? Can an undocumented person still get a passport from their home country’s embassy while they are in the US? If it’s not impossible for someone to get passport, even if it is difficult, I don’t see the restriction as violating the equal protection clause. It seems like you’d have a better argument saying that everyone needing identification of any sort to fly violates the right to travel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-real-id-requirement-for-travel-constitutional/1011495.md?page=3)