# Is the Romney candidacy an LDS Mission Call? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544 "2012-10-22T17:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/81 "2012-12-24T22:40:02Z")
‘Romney did not want to win’ [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=romney%20son%20did%20not%20want%20to%20be%20president&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QqQIoADAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Fblogs%2Fpolitics%2F2012%2F12%2Fmitt-romney-didnt-want-to-be-president-son-claims%2F&ei=etjYUKO7LMSHrAGeooGAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEkryb4AkyZt3Z-yT1gMYlHSrT61w](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=romney%20son%20did%20not%20want%20to%20be%20president&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QqQIoADAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Fblogs%2Fpolitics%2F2012%2F12%2Fmitt-romney-didnt-want-to-be-president-son-claims%2F&ei=etjYUKO7LMSHrAGeooGAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEkryb4AkyZt3Z-yT1gMYlHSrT61w) So, perhaps it was a Mission Call after all. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/82 "2012-12-26T05:44:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > ‘Romney did not want to win’ If you read the article, his son never says he didn’t want to win. [He says he didn’t want to run.](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/president/2012/12/23/the-story-behind-mitt-romney-loss-the-presidential-campaign-president-obama/2QWkUB9pJgVIi1mAcIhQjL/story.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews) > [@](#): > > So, perhaps it was a Mission Call after all. If it was a mission, wouldn’t he have wanted to win? What’s the point of a call to run and not win? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/83 "2012-12-26T12:51:42Z")
Not at all. Romney may have responded aggressively to the Mission Call, believing that God would make it happen, but still not wanting to win. It was mentioned that George Romney did not want to be President. His attempt at a candidacy may also have been a Mission Call. Especially in light of the fact that he was not eligible due to his foreign birth. Crane ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/84 "2012-12-26T13:03:49Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > This omits the pertinent question as to _why_ he wants to be president pretty bad. I’ll let a [former Mormon explain it](http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mormon-secrets-that-every-voter-should-know-2012-7?op=1) (bold is mine): > "During the endowment, Mormons are required to take secret **oaths that they will obey various “laws.”** The “law of obedience” requires them to obey “the law of God and keep his commandments.” They don’t specify what the “law of God” is, but Mormons understand that the Mormon church is the only true source of God’s law and commandments. So they are taking an oath to obey their church. > > The “law of sacrifice” requires a “covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God.” Mormons understand “the kingdom of God” to be the Mormon church. … > > The last law is the “law of consecration.” It requires the Mormons to: > [INDENT]…consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. > "A couple of terms need explanation. The “Kingdom of God on the earth” and “Zion” mean, to Mormons, not just their church, but ultimately **the theocracy that will replace the non-religious civil government. They believe, of course, that Christ will come to run this government, using faithful Mormons as administrators.** > > "The pressing question for Mitt Romney, and for the Mormons who are supporting his candidacy, is: Would Romney consider the Presidency to be something that God had “blessed” him with, and which, pursuant to his secret oath, he should “consecrate” to his church for establishing a theocracy? If he is elected, will he kneel down and thank his God for blessing him with the presidency? And what is he supposed to do, according to his secret oath, with “everything” God has blessed him with? That’s right: He is to use it for the benefit of the Mormon church. > > "Now wait a minute, you may be thinking. It doesn’t really mean that! The Mormon church doesn’t expect that from its members, does it? Oh, yes, it _does_! … [/indent] > So the answer to the OP is, contrary to protestations otherwise, _yes, make no mistake about it, it absolutely is_. Mormons do not believe the Church to be the Kingdom of God, everything is the Kingdom of God, not just the Church. We don’t currently follow the law of consecration. The church tried that and it failed because people were too selfish to share, so it’s an ideal but unrealized law. Also, the idea of Jesus coming and governing the earth will not happen until the Second Coming and the leadership will be set up then, not before. The above reference is either an intentional twisting of Church doctrine to fit a certain bias or a serious misinterpretation of the reality of Church Doctrine, because that is absolutely not what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/85 "2012-12-26T13:14:33Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Romney may have responded aggressively to the Mission Call, believing that God would make it happen, but still not wanting to win. Which brings us back to the question of whether the Mission Call thing even matters. But he ran and acted like he wanted to win and did all the things a candidate who was trying to win would have done. The fact that one of his sons says otherwise after the election is already over doesn’t matter. > [@](#): > > Especially in light of the fact that he was not eligible due to his foreign birth. His parents were U.S. citizens, so he probably would have been eligible. The question wasn’t resolved because he dropped out, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/86 "2012-12-26T18:07:39Z")
Marley, The brain wash thing was really odd. I wanted George Romney to run and would have voted for him, but never got the chance. Just reread the Constitution on the foreign born issue. The wording is strained, but it looks like citizenship is enough. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/87 "2012-12-26T23:53:19Z")
April R, According to Mormon Doctrine: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it is now constituted is the _Kingdom of God on Earth_” Mormon Doctrine - Bruce R. McConkie pg 415 Crane ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/88 "2012-12-27T02:15:51Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > April R, > > According to Mormon Doctrine: > > “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it is now constituted is the _Kingdom of God on Earth_” > > Mormon Doctrine - Bruce R. McConkie pg 415 > > Crane While that book is full of interesting opinion of one very smart man, it is not Church sanctioned, and is not promoted or stamped with the official seal of Church approval for Doctrinal literature, so quote from McConkie’s text all you want, it is simply his interpretation not the official Church stance on most things. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/89 "2012-12-27T02:27:34Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > While that book is full of interesting opinion of one very smart man, it is not Church sanctioned, and is not promoted or stamped with the official seal of Church approval for Doctrinal literature, so quote from McConkie’s text all you want, it is simply his interpretation not the official Church stance on most things. Yup. Bruce McConkie was only an Apostle, sustained in General Conference every six months as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. So if he publishes a book called _Mormon Doctrine_, there’s no reason to think he speaks of _actual_ Mormon doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/90 "2012-12-27T02:36:36Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > Yup. Bruce McConkie was only an Apostle, sustained in General Conference every six months as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. So if he publishes a book called _Mormon Doctrine_, there’s no reason to think he speaks of _actual_ Mormon doctrine. It’s still just his interpretation of Church teachings. It is up to interpretation and debate. It was not commissioned by the Church in his duty as a Quorum member, and it is not stated to be revelation. It is not published nor endorsed as official Church Doctrine. No matter how much you roll your eyes or drip with sarcasm, it doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/91 "2012-12-27T02:58:13Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Interesting timing: > > [Redirect Notice](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mormon%20women%20missionaries%20press%20release&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sltrib.com%2Fsltrib%2Fnews%2F55129357-78%2Fmissionaries-lds-missionary-mormon.html.csp&ei=yjWRUNfFF4PuiQLAo4HYAw&usg=AFQjCNFnrfoVQHRJ57fdk_Z8UjegDMTVmg) > > Romney still lags with the female vote so the church has a LDS press release emphasizing women missionaries. > > Crane It appears you’re intent on finding a conspiracy between LDS leadership and Romney’s efforts to become president. I sincerely doubt any exists. I’m sure there would have been celebration in Salt Lake City had Romney won, but beyond that, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Additionally, it is highly unlikely that the church really cares how Romney fits into any voting model. I attended church with a LDS member of congress, and I can’t remember any time where his duties as a congressman were in any way discussed in church. ETA. April is correct in her statement. McConkie speaks (writes) his own mind. There is only ONE person authorized to speak for the church, and it’s not McConkie. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/92 "2012-12-27T03:58:07Z")
Thanks - I purchased the book in the LDS bookstore. I purchased a number of other books on LDS faith from the same bookstore. Are they equally unreliable? So, what publication gives the true LDS Doctrine. BTW - It was the US Government that ended the Law of Consecration. The communitarian economy was actually very successful under Brigham Young, but it was not compatible with the US economy. Crane ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/93 "2012-12-27T04:16:50Z")
If it says The Church Of Jesus Churst of Latter-day saints you can rest assured it is official This is what the seal looks like: [http://www.readtoday.com/assets/img/partners/Church%20of%20Jesus%20Christ%20of%20Latter%20Day%20Saints.png](http://www.readtoday.com/assets/img/partners/Church%20of%20Jesus%20Christ%20of%20Latter%20Day%20Saints.png) Here it is on a Church Manual (also found on Church published scriptures)[http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/asahlin2/SDC11480.jpg](http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/asahlin2/SDC11480.jpg) And on a pass along card published by the Church [http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/asahlin2/SDC11482.jpg](http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/asahlin2/SDC11482.jpg) Otherwise it is like any religion’s book store, written by religious authors but not official Church literature. It’s not that difficult to understand. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/94 "2012-12-27T04:19:06Z")
My husband recommends these for a start on Mormon Doctrine [http://www.lds.org/manual/missionary?lang=eng](http://www.lds.org/manual/missionary?lang=eng) ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/95 "2012-12-27T12:59:41Z")
April R, Thanks, but the pamphlets are not specifically on doctrine. Is there an official LDS publication that addresses doctrine. So, you stated: “Mormons do not believe the Church to be the Kingdom of God, everything is the Kingdom of God, not just the Church.” Is your statement LDS doctrine or just your opinion? Crane ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/96 "2012-12-27T13:44:07Z")
Those pamphlets contain succinct doctrinal summaries as officially published by the Church. You want more, read the Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. Anything Else is superfluous You can purchase the quad combination here: [http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/AjaxCatalogSearchResultView?storeId=715839595&catalogId=10557&langId=-1&itemsPerPage=&pageIndex=0&searchTerm=quad&submit=](http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/AjaxCatalogSearchResultView?storeId=715839595&catalogId=10557&langId=-1&itemsPerPage=&pageIndex=0&searchTerm=quad&submit=) ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/97 "2012-12-27T13:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Teachings of Brigham Young > Earthly governments must be based on God’s laws to endure. > > If a nation transgresses wholesome laws and oppresses any of its citizens or another nation, until the cup of iniquity is full, through acts that are perfectly under its own control, God will hurl those who are in authority from their power, and they will be forgotten; and he will take another people, though poor and despised, a hiss and a by-word among the popular nations, and instill into them power and wisdom; and they will increase and prosper, until they in turn become a great nation on the earth (DBY, 357). > > Great and mighty empires are raised to the summit of human greatness by him, to bring to pass his inscrutable purposes, and at his pleasure they are swept from existence and lost in the oblivion of antiquity. All these mighty changes are pointing to and preparing the way for the introduction of his Kingdom in the latter times, that will stand forever and grow in greatness and power until a holy, lasting, religious and political peace shall make the hearts of the poor among men exult with joy in the Holy One of Israel, and that his Kingdom is everywhere triumphant (DBY, 357). > > A theocratic government [is] one in which all laws are enacted and executed in righteousness, and whose officers possess that power which proceedeth from the Almighty (DBY, 354). > > If the Kingdom of God, or a theocratic government, was established on the earth, many practices now prevalent would be abolished (DBY, 354). > > One community would not be permitted to array itself in opposition to another to coerce them to their standard; one denomination would not be suffered to persecute another because they differed in religious belief and mode of worship. Every one would be fully protected in the enjoyment of all religious and social rights, and no state, no government, no community, no person would have the privilege of infringing on the rights of another; one Christian community would not rise up and persecute another (DBY, 354). > > Whoever lives to see the Kingdom of God fully established upon the earth will see a government that will protect every person in his rights. If that government was now reigning … you would see the Roman Catholic, the Greek Catholic, the Episcopalian, the Presbyterian, the Methodist, the Baptist, the Quaker, the Shaker, the [Hindi], the [Muslim], and every class of worshipers most strictly protected in all their municipal rights and in the privileges of worshiping who, what, and when they pleased, not infringing upon the rights of others. Does any candid person in his sound judgment desire any greater liberty? (DBY, 355). > > How can a republican [freely elected] government stand? There is only one way for it to stand. It can endure; but how? It can endure, as the government of heaven endures, upon the eternal rock of truth and virtue; and that is the only basis upon which any government can endure (DBY, 355). If you need anything else, look at [http://lds.org](http://lds.org) and avail yourself of the search function ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/98 "2012-12-27T14:07:24Z")
**Crane**. You post a thread in the Elections forum asking if Romney was on a church mission call when he ran for president, and now you want to discuss church literature and official church doctrine? > [@](#): > > Is the Romney candidacy an LDS Mission Call? I’ll answer your question so we can all move on. No. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/99 "2012-12-27T14:23:11Z")
I was responding to April’s posts. She raises an interesting point - by what authority do you state “No”? Crane ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544/100 "2012-12-27T15:17:48Z")
April, It’s interesting that you quote Brigham Young in this context. He frequently used Mission Calls for a variety of purposes. Also, it is odd that some posters above refer to Mission Calls as a conspiracy. Crane [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-romney-candidacy-an-lds-mission-call/638544.md?page=6)