# Is the "South Park" movie art or trash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2000, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022 "2000-03-25T05:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/21 "2000-03-26T11:57:00Z")
I loved it. It was the only animated musical where the songs were something I would want to hear again. M’kay? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/22 "2000-03-27T02:57:00Z")
“Blame Canada” didn’t win. Damn. Damn damn damn damn damn. ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/23 "2000-03-27T03:14:00Z")
I’ll join the chorus trumpeting the praises of the South Park movie (out of their asses, no doubt…), and say that it was a hilarious bit of satire. I agree with Otto’s interpretation- that it was directed towards parents, and not the government, but who cares, it’s all a bunch of tree-hugging hippie crap, anyway… What really did it for me, though, were the details. For example, in the scene where the good citizens of South Park are getting prepared to fight the Canadian hordes, there’s one shot of all our favorite characters marching down the street in uniform. One of these marching figures towards the back happens to be none other than Jesus himself, taking a break from his community access show to enlist in the army. Priceless! * * * Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh. ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/24 "2000-03-27T03:37:00Z")
It seems that the only reason people cite for _not_ considering the South Park movie “art”, is that it’s vulgar. I don’t see how that even matters. Regardless of the subject matter and crudeness, the movie was made with far more care and creativity than many of the films that people readily label as “art films” these days. The musical numbers alone were worth the price of admission. My personal favorite was the montage take-off on “les miserables”. Brilliant. I saw it the day it opened in theatres. As soon as “uncle f\*cker” started I started laughing outloud, and I hardly stopped during the rest (except for some of the Saddam/Satan stuff which, I have to admit, made me squirm in my seat!). ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/25 "2000-03-27T03:47:00Z")
Having not seen the movie or read ALL the posts in here, here’s something to consider: It’s not art or trash, it’s entertainment. Must it be about art or crap? Entertainment doesn’t mean it’s artful, yet it can be. It doesn’t mean that it’s trash, although it can be. The most important thing that comes to my mind is that it’s for people to enjoy and take that into consideration. I don’t view Ally McBeal as art or trash, it’s a show that I enjoy seeing. Same goes for a multitude of movies and TV shows… ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/26 "2000-03-27T03:49:00Z")
Fix this sentence: It doesn’t mean that it’s trash, although it can be. to: It doesn’t mean that it’s trash, although it can be entertaining. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/27 "2000-03-27T03:52:00Z")
DAMN…forgot one important thing here, I don’t have cable and have only seen snipets of South Park, the show…I think it’s juvenile from what I have I have seen. But, I enjoyed watching Ren and Stimpy when I had cable. So again, it’s not really about art or trash, it’s what people find entertaining. In the world we live in, goofy and stupid stuff can help take us away from our own problems even if it couldn’t be considered art 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jo3sh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@Jo3sh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jo3sh)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/28 "2000-03-27T05:47:00Z")
I think it’s somewhere in between, but a lot closer to art than trash. ## Hell, maybe it IS art. After all, Bill Gates gets shot in the head. What more could you ask for? A committee is a lifeform with six or more legs and no brain. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Socko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@Mr\_Socko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Socko)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/29 "2000-03-27T06:06:00Z")
Mr. Socko says \< “hiya Cactus Jack” \> I haven’t seen the movie but I heard it’s kinda groovie. * * * Happy to not be a virgin! ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/30 "2000-03-27T15:27:00Z")
techChick68–you could start a whole new debate attempting to draw a line between art and entertainment. Interesting point, but I’m sticking with art. It seems to me that if entertainment (ie. diversion or escapism) had been the only goal of the film, they could have stopped with fart jokes and gross-outs. Enough people are entertained by that alone to sell movie tickets. But the movie is carefully layered with comedy and satire, and carried off with such brilliance that I’m happy to include it in my own definition of art (whatever that is). My 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/31 "2000-03-27T17:24:00Z")
Although all the points about “SP:BLU” being a social satire and the like, you’re forgetting that Matt Stone and Trey Parker have publicly said they wrote the thing _specifically to piss of the MPAA!_ (And it worked, too!) Here’s a quote from E! Online: > [@](#): > > _“South Park” Not Quite Uncut_ > > June 21, 1999 > > The upcoming _South Park_ flick might be subtitled _Bigger, Longer and Uncut_, but don’t believe the hype. > > The duo had to re-edit the film at least three times to avoid a box-office killing NC-17 rating from the prudes at the Motion Picture Association of America. Parker and Stone purportedly snipped some two minutes of footage from _Bigger, Longer and Uncut_ to secure the more audience-friendly R-rating… > > But to hear Parker and Stone spin it, the plot was secondary to the film’s true purpose–vendetta. Seems the pair still harbors a grudge against the MPAA; they believe the ratings board unfairly dissed Parker’s _Orgazmo_ with an NC-17, a commercial kiss-of-death. Their revenge: Be as crude as possible, from the double entendre of the subtitle to the reputed love scenes between Satan and Saddam Hussein. > > “We’re spending tons of Paramount’s money to do a big middle finger to the MPAA,” Stone tells _Entertainment Weekly_. “We aren’t trying to make a film that offends anybody–except we’re trying to offend the MPAA.” > > When the MPAA slapped an NC-17 on _Bigger, Longer and Uncut_, Paramount, the film’s studio, which had been promised a more viable rating by Stone and Parker, was reportedly none too pleased. The cartoonists in turn were forced to relent a bit, cutting the most offensive gags and a subplot featuring the oft-killed Kenny to secure the R. (We’re guessing the _South_ Park faithful are busy cranking out the fake IDs at this moment.) > > In the end (no pun intended), though, the _South Park_ tandem thinks they got the last laugh. Says Parker: “This film is really nothing more than getting our own satisfaction in knowing that the MPAA has to sit and watch this.” I think that says it all. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Wendell Wagner** : > > I wonder if Brian Boitano will now take “What would Brian Boitano do?” as his theme song. Originally Brian was really gritting his teeth about the song, but in time he evidently got over it, even skating to it at a show. Personally, I would love to see someone _else_ skate to it at a show Brian is also skating in. 🙂 Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/32 "2000-03-27T20:26:00Z")
There was also a ratings controversy about the title. Matt & Trey were originally going to release the film under the title _South Park: All Hell Breaks Loose_. Now, in addition to its G/PG/PG-13/R/NC-17 ratings system for movies, the MPAA also has a separate ratings system for movie trailers (i.e. ads for the film). The trailer rating system is simpler: Either the trailer is approved for “all audiences”, in which case it may accompany any film; or it is approved for “restricted audiences”, in which case it may only accompany films rated R or NC-17. There is no “semi-restricted” rating for trailers that allows them to be viewed with, say, PG or higher rated movies but not G rated movies. The MPAA decided that the South Park movies’s original subtitle, “All Hell Breaks Loose”, was inappropriate for viewing by an audience that included little kiddies. Because of the word “hell” in the title, they only approved the movie’s trailer for restricted audiences. This would have meant Paramount couldn’t advertise its new South Park film on any screen playing a PG or PG-13 rated movie.\* Thus, Matt & Trey had to make a new subtitle for the movie – and in prehaps their greatest success in throwing something back in the MPAA’s face, they came up with “Bigger, Longer, and Uncut,” which has far more vulgar connotations than “hell” ever would! \*) It also meant Paramount couldn’t advertise its new South Park film on any screen playing a G rated movie. However, since the G rating is now associated exclusively with kiddie fare, it’s doubtful that they would **want** to advertise South Park right before a G flick. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/33 "2000-03-27T21:44:00Z")
Keep in mind, too, that Parker and Stone have been very adamant that _South Park_ is most assuredly **not** intended for anyone under 17 without supervision - hence wanting the R and not the deadly NC-17, meaning younger viewers are allowed in with adults, instead of not at all. Basically, some kids could handle it, but it is up to the parents to decide what is appropriate and what is not. The show reflects the same intention by being a cable show, late-night, and very clearly labelled “M” for Mature. Any parent who let their kid see this movie without them gets what they deserve, IMHO. A for us adults, I laughed my honkin’ head off. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![aschrott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@aschrott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aschrott)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/34 "2000-03-28T15:08:00Z")
Thanks for the back story, Esprix and Tracer. I would add though, that the creators of a work of art/entertainment/trash (whatever) are often the least reliable sources about its real value. I’m sure that Stone and Parker play up the intentional vulgarity of their movie because that is what people expect from them. If they say their movie is trash, is it? If Britney Spears says her music is art, is it? Regardless of their statements of intent regarding the movie, the finished product they put into theaters was immensely entertaining, clever, and (in some ways) inspired. Perhaps this was in spite of their wishes, but it doesn’t change my opinion. Take it easy. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/35 "2000-03-28T16:48:00Z")
What **is** the big deal with Britney Spears anyway? I’ve heard all sorts of junk levelled at her, up to and including the claim that she is the absolute worst possible role model for girls. The one time I saw Ms. Spears performing, I happened to catch it on the Disney Channel (it was a recent performance, not her old Mickey Mouse Club stuff) – she basically came across like a high school cheerleader. Is there something sinister about this young woman that I don’t know? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/36 "2000-03-29T06:05:00Z")
Tracer, I have nothing against Britney Spears. Of course, I’ve never heard her sing either. In fact, I wouldn’t mind being with Britney on a slow boat to China. ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/37 "2000-03-28T21:03:00Z")
Ahh, getting back at the MPAA - true sign of mature and sophisticated directors! If South Park is satire so is my third grade drawing of my english teacher brandishing big buckteeth and pooping on an apple. * * * Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/38 "2000-03-28T21:19:00Z")
You’re just jealous because you didn’t kill Kenny first. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/39 "2000-03-28T21:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Sake Samurai** : > > If South Park is satire so is my third grade drawing of my english teacher brandishing big buckteeth and pooping on an apple. Well, art _is_ subjective… 🙂 I bought it as slapstick, as irreverence, and as satire. Plus, it was f\*\*kin’ funny! Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022/40 "2000-03-28T23:21:00Z")
Don’t make me take this to the Pit, gentlemen. I’m not the least bit surprised that you enjoyed the movie, Esprix, but tracer has me stumped! 1. It’s a damn musical. 2. It features small boys acting like adults. 3. MMMmmmmmm. . .Cartoon homosexuality 4. All those annoying songs and dances 5. “Advanced” satire revealed through potty humor and excessive profanity. 6. Worn thin plot devices and pop culture references 7. Cheesy music accompanied by tired lyrical masturbation and stiffly animated gallivanting. There’s nothing wrong with adoring a good musical, tracer - I have plenty of friends who like musicals. I remember when I saw the flick in one of the local drafthouses - the grins on the faces of the herd corralled in front of the screen reminded me of that look little Bobby gave me in second grade right after he farted and peed his pants simultaneously during recess when little Sarah in the pink dress walked by. It’s good to see some of us never lose the magic of youth!!! 😃 * * * Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-south-park-movie-art-or-trash/18022.md?page=3)