# Is "The Squad" to blame for lack of support for the Democrats these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 18, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753 "2022-02-18T19:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/21 "2022-02-18T21:41:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Most of the time, when parts are stripped out, and are asked about individually, people actually are in favor of it. It’s when it’s all put together that people object, for… reasons. Or, perhaps they actually have reasons. I do, though I’m not going to go into an exhaustive list here. I’m sure that the people who individually, actually are in favor also are for…reasons. 😛 > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Socialism is a spectrum. If you drive on roads and send your kids to school and expect emergency services to come when you need them, then you are already happily partaking in socialism. It’s just where that line is, when _other people_ are getting more than you think that they deserve, that we are determining. No, but, again, I’m not going to get into why I think this is a silly example of ‘socialism’, or what socialism actually is. You are trying to paint with a ridiculously large brush anyone who has any objections to your own definition of what ‘socialism’ is, while my own objections have zero to do with having emergency services, roads or government workers or whatever other example you are wanting to use. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/22 "2022-02-18T21:42:01Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > the Squad originated that many Democrats parroted it. The “Squad” did _not_ originate it, and virtually no Democrats repeated it. The rest of your post is based on similarly faulty premises, so I don’t know that it’s worth unpacking. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/23 "2022-02-18T21:44:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Progressives are to blame for _what_ ? Acknowledging that list of problems and actually working to solve them? You are free to provide a cite. > [@](#): > > And your list of the “plan of attack” is not actually based in reality. > **[IPS-Congressional-Progressive-Caucus-Priorities-2021.pdf](https://ips-dc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/IPS-Congressional-Progressive-Caucus-Priorities-2021.pdf)** > > 855.99 KB ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/24 "2022-02-18T21:45:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Or, perhaps they actually have reasons. That’s what I said. > [@XT](#): > > I do, though I’m not going to go into an exhaustive list here. I’m sure that the people who individually, actually are in favor also are for…reasons. Yes, because they believe that these programs will make life better for themselves and their fellow citizens. > [@XT](#): > > I’m not going to get into why I think this is a silly example of ‘socialism’, or what socialism actually is. Right, because pinning down what socialism actually is means not being able to use it as a vague accusation anymore. > [@XT](#): > > You are trying to paint with a ridiculously large brush anyone who has any objections to your own definition of what ‘socialism’ is Nah, I didn’t paint nothin on nobody 'tall. > [@XT](#): > > while my own objections have zero to do with having emergency services, roads or government workers or whatever other example you are wanting to use. Right, you _don’t_ object to those things. It’s just _other_ actions of working together to accomplish things that you object to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/25 "2022-02-18T21:46:24Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You are free to provide a cite. A cite for what? That the US is facing problems? I don’t get it. And your “cite” doesn’t actually say what you were claiming earlier, so I don’t know what exactly you are trying to do here. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/26 "2022-02-18T21:47:22Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > A cite for what? That the US is facing problems? > > I don’t get it. You said that they acknowledge my list and are actively working to solve it. If that’s true then you can demonstrate it in some way. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > And your “cite” doesn’t actually say what you were claiming earlier, so I don’t know what exactly you are trying to do here. From the headline, they have my #2 in as their #8. Except that they approach it from the vantage of equity and not from the vantage of corruption and gerrymandering. They don’t propose to get politics or scumbaggery out of the equation, so it’s really not an equivalent to #2. None of the other three issues in there at all. The stupid thing reads as a Communist manifesto. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/27 "2022-02-18T21:51:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, because pinning down what socialism actually is means not being able to use it as a vague accusation anymore. Or…because hijack, and the fact that I have done this many times in the past. Or, you could pretend like I really don’t have any but a vague accusation…like you are doing. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nah, I didn’t paint nothin on nobody 'tall. And butter couldn’t melt in your mouth… > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, you _don’t_ object to those things. It’s just _other_ actions of working together to accomplish things that you object to. Or…because those aren’t examples of socialism, except in your own mind… Ado. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/28 "2022-02-18T22:25:00Z")
I have to say that think K9bfriender is making better points, overall. Or at least it sounds that way to me, currently. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/29 "2022-02-18T23:23:02Z")
Don’t you just love how people simply toss out the OP and argue some other subject altogether in thread after thread? Neither the Squad nor socialism have anything to do with Democrats’ problems. The word Covid doesn’t appear in this thread, but actually does, along with empty shelves, higher prices, and the lack of promises being kept because of insane Democratic senators. None of those fit in to the old ideological arguments, though, so why bother mentioning them? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/30 "2022-02-18T23:38:13Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Their biggest problem is with messaging. They suck at it, I mean really suck. “Defund the police” is probably one of the stupidest phrases I’ve ever heard in politics. Because “defund the police” doesn’t actually convey what DTP actually is. > > I think DTP could actually get bipartisan support if the progressives didn’t suck so much at messaging. Is “We need a new blue” really all that hard to come up with? It’s catchier and gets the actual message across. It’s not as bad as “believe all women”, but you hit the nail in the head about messaging. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/31 "2022-02-18T23:46:59Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think the Squad gets a lot more notice in right-wing circles than in reality-based circles. This wouldn’t be a problem if the reality based circles were much larger than the right-wing circles. When they’re both of about the same size, or even when the right-wing circle is just slightly smaller, as seems to be the case, we shouldn’t be quite so dismissive. I’m not saying we should cater to the right wingers, but we do need to be more aware of what triggers them. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/32 "2022-02-19T00:14:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And the only member of “the Squad” I could even name is AOC. Her, and Ilhan Omar for me. They are the two that end up in the news frequently. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/33 "2022-02-19T00:17:11Z")
Ah. I should know that. But if you offered me a million dollars when I made my statement, I wouldn’t have remembered. Oops. That’s how much significance their opinions have to me in my day-to-day life as a Democrat (and I actually agree with the Squad on a lot of things. They just rarely enter my worldview.) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/34 "2022-02-19T00:21:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > They just rarely enter my worldview. Yeah, I forget that it exists too. I wasn’t even sure what “the squad” was at first when I saw the thread topic, then I went into the thread and remembered. But then again, I’m not a conservative who is worried that they are destroying my country. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/35 "2022-02-19T01:17:27Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > There are a lot of policies in BBB that are beneficial and popular with working folks. I’m entirely frustrated with corporate democrats than progressives, for sure. I know they keep saying that rural Americans don’t want progressive things, but the indivdual programs they seem to be for. I fear the corporate Demands care too much about the opinions of those who are inflammatory trards the women. Well, you quoted a piece from Mike “[A source is indistinguishable from a friend and both are indistinguishable from sponsors](https://www.salon.com/2013/12/19/hack_list_no_1_mike_allen/)” Allen, so I’m not sure that he represents the voice of the Democratic party. Hell, the two actual politicians he quoted might have (or had) a D after their name, but they are Heidi “[Susan Collins is more liberal than me](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/heidi_heitkamp/412554)” Heitkamp and Josh “[More Conservative than 32 of my Republican colleagues](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/josh_gottheimer/412714)” Gottheimer. I’m shocked that someone who will parrot whatever the Chamber of Commerce wants to see printed, for a price, and two Democrats, who can be found in the red portion of the ideological scatter plot, might take issue with AOC and friends. Shocked, I tell you. Was Newt Gingrich unavailable for a quote? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/36 "2022-02-19T03:11:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > From what I see, the issues that the Democrats have is around muddled messaging on priorities, and a general inability to bring their own caucuses (in both houses of Congress) into any sort of unity on most issues. Yeah, it is not entirely just a matter of the soundbite messaging that turns off the Minivan Moms – that has been an issue for a generation and Democrats have come and gone in the face of that. Right now we have though a perhaps greater issue of the Democratic majority in DC looking weak, coming across as overpromising and under-delivering, and “the Squad” cannot carry all of the fault. I mean, making passage of $1.2 trillion infrastructure investment look like coming up short and failing, because you started out proclaiming it would come by the hand of a $3+ trillion Fixing Everything That’s Wrong package, that’s on the established leadership. They’re the ones who are supposed to know how the sausage is made and how to count votes and balance interests, and it coming down to “Joe Manchin ruins everything” as why they could not work it out just makes them look weak. _“But wait JRD”_ I hear some out there saying _“if all the Proggies had just STFU and taken their Green Social Justice Deal and shoved it, it would not have come to this!”_ You sure of that? BBB seemed to contain things proposed by the whole spectrum of the House. The idea being, I suppose, we’ll include in the proposed reconciliation bill _ **everything** _ everyone wants, and as is normal in the course of the debate and parliamentary procedure we’ll refine it down to what _can_ pass and we all want to pass. Some things one faction wanted would make it, some wouldn’t, and the same for each bloc until everyone had something they could live with. That is supposed to be the game Biden, Pelosi, Hoyer, and Schumer have been practicing all their adult lives and at which they are supposed to be masters. Right now they’re not looking great at it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/37 "2022-02-19T03:31:08Z")
No. Very much not. You can look directly at the votes in Congress and see where the problems are, and it’s definitely not them. It’s basically two senators: Manchin and Sinema. If they were on board, then the Senate could pass all of the popular legislation. But these two hold it up. Even in the face of the S&P and Moody’s saying that not passing something would cause problems. The Republican party is propping itself up with gerrymandering and vote suppression. The only reason to do that is that they know they can’t win a majority with their platform. And the way to fix that would be to fix voting to make those things not allowed. But these two and their lackies won’t get on board with the only way to get voting legislation passed. The reason for dissatisfaction with the Democrats is not them being too “woke.” The things they are pushing for have pretty popular support. They turn down things that don’t, like the whole “defund the police” branding. No, what holds them back is the lack of anything being done. They have very few public wins. And that’s not at all due to the Squad. The Squad are doing their job and representing their more progressive constituents, as well as speaking up for progressives throughout the country. But the Democratic party can’t do what it should be doing and actually compromising with them. The one time they said they would do so, Machin prevented it from happening. And they don’t seem interested in stopping the Republicans from rigging the voting system. Machin seems interested in his coal industry, and Sinema seems interested in her deluded belief she could run for higher office by making herself hated by both sides. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/38 "2022-02-19T03:55:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. Very much not. You can look directly at the votes in Congress and see where the problems are, and it’s definitely not them. It’s basically two senators: Manchin and Sinema. Why are they any more responsible than the 50 Republicans? If the answer is that you should be loyal to your party, I disagree. (But there is a big difference between the two. Manchin is roughly as progressive as he can get away with and remain re-electable. Sinema is hard to understand but may be on an intellectual voyage from left to right.) As for the squad, the administration has an opportunity to attack their ideas. Then the squad would be slightly helping Biden/Harris politically by showing the contrast between mainstream Democratic ideas and unpopular ones. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/39 "2022-02-19T03:58:02Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > The plan he got elected on. I think saying that they are pushing to defund the police, rename schools and tear down statues is kind of a strawman. I think in fairness the squad did attach themselves to defund the police, while they were far from the originators of this. However, yes a lot of this is just “random activists said this and now it’s AOC’s fault”. All these school issues (whether schools should close over covid, the whole “CRT in schools” issue, and elite schools and admissions) are something they barely talk about. All I can find from searching is that after all of these anti-CRT laws, AOC accused the GOP of not wanting to teach about racism, which is what every democrat has been saying, and that at one point she accused an elite NY school of not letting in enough black people. And these are relatively isolated messages. You hear them talk about student loans, the rent moratorium, healthcare, child care, taxes etc. hundreds of times more. If I wanted to be disingenuous I could say that moderate Democrats opposing a bill that included the extremely popular provision for the government to negotiate on medicare drug prices had caused approval ratings for the party to tank. But of course this is not the reason and it’s the kind of reductive reasoning used in this article. In truth, we’re not in a crisis any more, we’re in a very bumpy recovery and people are going to take out their frustrations with the fatigue over covid and the economy on the party that’s running everything. This is another absurd passage from the article: > [@](#): > > **Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.),** [co-chair](https://problemsolverscaucus.house.gov/about-co-chairs) of the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus, told Axios: “What I’m hearing at home — and what I’m focused on — are commonsense, bipartisan solutions — from tackling grocery and gas prices, to cutting taxes and fixing our infrastructure, to investing in law enforcement and fighting crime.” As a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus, Gottheimer’s core brand proposition is about solving problems via bipartisan solutions. AOC isn’t preventing that. The number of GOP members on the Problem Solvers Caucus is larger than the number of squad members who break with bipartisan legislation. We saw this with infrastructure. If he also wants votes for cutting taxes, investing in law enforcement etc. (issues which he probably won’t get support from AOC without major concessions) he’s free to try to find GOP support to offset the fringe of his party that won’t support him on those issues. Which apparently is what he wants anyway. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753/40 "2022-02-19T04:22:37Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > All these school issues (whether schools should close over covid, the whole “CRT in schools” issue, and elite schools and admissions) are something they barely talk about. All I can find from searching is that after all of these anti-CRT laws, AOC accused the GOP of not wanting to teach about racism, which is what every democrat has been saying, and that at one point she accused an elite NY school of not letting in enough black people. And these are relatively isolated messages. You hear them talk about student loans, the rent moratorium, healthcare, child care, taxes etc. hundreds of times more. Maybe, but hardly anyone is listening to the hundreds of sentences needed to know this. So, while it may tell me whether I should like them personally, it doesn’t explain why they would be unlikely to be elected in swing districts. Also, I’m not sure what you point to is all popular in the heat of political campaigning. The median voter did not go to college and may not want more of their taxes to support their betters when they hear the GOP talking about deficits and inflation (even if abstractly OK with some loan forgiveness.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-squad-to-blame-for-lack-of-support-for-the-democrats-these-days/959753.md?page=3)