Don’t worry, I made these same points in post #41 
I guess I really am invisible.
IAMBIC, you asked why Americans think it’s so damn expensive to travel to Europe, when working class eurpoeans do it all the time.
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Airfare. ~800 US per person. Talking about a family of 4, that’s 3200. That is about 2 1/2 months take home (after taxes) pay for an averagely paid teacher, who makes 44,000 US
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Hotels over 7 day period. How about the modest ** Best Western Regents in Paris. $77US x 7 = $540 before taxes. Assume 4 people sharing 1 room. If 2 rooms, then 1,080. Another 1/2 month’s pay.
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Food, local travel, museums & tourist attractions. For food, let’s budget 25E per person, per day. this could be either frequent inexpensive meals or picnicking with one “fun/fancy” night out. 100Ex7 = $700. Guess what, that’s almost $1400 US. 4x 3 Day Museum Passes = $200 US. Trips on the Metro + “other” how about $200. All told, $1600
So, IAMBIC, I don’t think I’ve planned an extravagent trip here. Do you really know lots of working class europeans who regularly spend 4 months pay on taking their family overseas? Who can spend 4 months pay on anything without an awful lot of planning and saving?
BTW, I’ve been to England (twice), France, Italy (twice), Spain, Bulgaria (for a summer), Hungary, Czech republic, Slovakia and Poland.
I speak English, some French and some Russian.
Growing up in NYC I have been exposed to the many world cultures right in my own backyard.
- People in urban areas vs. rural (I’m quite sure there’s a difference.)
I’m not quite so sure. Some of the wealthiest persons I’ve known have been farmers and extremely well-travelled. Also, Hispanic immigrants are beginning to move into some of the smaller towns in the state that I live in so that sometimes there is a blending of three or more ethnic cultures.
- Coastal communinties vs. central (Probably.)
I would think that would depend on the coastal community and the central community under comparison.
- People of various ethnic backgrounds, eg. are Americans of British ancestry more or less likely to experience ethnic diversity compared to, say, Americans of Ukranian ancestry.
I have no study to cite, but we are such a hodge-podge that all of us experience ethnic diversity. Could you be more specific in your question?
Have been to London, Lake District, Ontario, Quebec, BC, Switzerland, The Midwest*, The South, SoCal, NoCal, Texas, Appalachia, Florida, the Rust Belt* and Greater New York*. (*=Have lived there.)
I claim German/Northern Italian/Ukrainian/English lead-miner ancestry. There is a legend on my mom’s side that the Uke strain was actually Jewish, which no one can reliably confirm.
I can understand written Spanish, French, German, and Italian with varying degrees of comprehension. I can speak basic Spanish, French, and German, but cannot reliably comprehend anything said to me in any language but English.
Cultures experienced: Buckets. Most of my living relatives are Italian-American, I’ve worked for a first-generation Hungarian, for another guy whose background was Slovak, dated a daughter of Belgian-Jewish refugees, my best friend in high school was Indonesian, a family friend lived in France for years, another lived in Wales and more or less “went native” learning the language & culture, I know more Irish-Americans than I can count, and I seem to get unusual amounts of email from people in Germany and Holland (several of the Germans have written because they share my last name, which is German and uncommon).
I have Norwegian, Czech and Russian (Jewish) ancestry. I’ve been told by Northern and Eastern Europeans that if I were blonde I would make a pretty durn good Norwegian. (I have a blonde cousin who wore a viking costume to a Halloween party once and pulled it off fabulously. He looked like he stepped right off the boat.)
I like to think I speak English better than most Americans I know. (This isn’t any special feat; I live in Southern California.)
As for American travels, I’ve lived in Maryland (DC area), Southern California and southern Arizona. I’ve spent lots and lots of time in Minnesota, and much less significant amounts of time in (descending order) Pennsylvania, Virginia, Nevada, Utah, Missouri, Illinois, Florida (don’t remember it, I was young). I’ve stopped in (traveled through and spent significant time but less than two days in) Nebraska, Colorado, Tennessee, Arkansas, and New York.
I’ve been to Israel, once. It was free, because I traveled with a group of other Jews at the college I attended at the time. It was the most amazing experience I’ve ever had and absolutely changed my life. I hope to travel the world more, but will definitely have to save up on a beginning government salary.
That pesky food-and-shelter thing… what am I thinking when I prioritize that above international travel. :rolleyes:
For a great many people, it very much is about the money.
I’ve been overseas twice. The second time was last year. At 30. I needed a new passport to go. Before that, if you had asked me, I would have said that I couldn’t afford it. When I had time, I didn’t have the money; When I’d had the money, I didn’t have the time.
(I did figure last year that I probably could have gone deeper into debt in college and figured out a way to go overseas - but silly me, at the time, I thought the nearly $100K I racked up was enough. I now realize another thousand or so here or there really wouldn’t have mattered all that much.)
I’d love to go again, but keeping my job is a higher priority than travelling. So, it will be a while before I take off. (Thank goodness I’m not trying to take a family with me. That would be nigh impossible)
But all of these obstacles apply, only more so, in the case of all non-European, non-North American people - Australians, New Zealanders, Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc. all have worse exchange rates and longer distances to deal with, and yet most adult citizens from these areas have been overseas.
BTW, Study confirms what Americans on this board suspected: Of Europeans who took holidays, about 90% remained in their own country or within the EU.
www.iussp.org/Bangkok2002/S18AKo.pdf
Only 8% left their region.
I’d like to see a cite on this. What do you mean by “most” – 50%, 90%? What do you mean by “overseas”? (If I go to Hawaii, does that count as overseas, even thought it’s still in the U.S.?)
If even 50% of the adult citizens from the places you mention have been “overseas”, then the standard of living for the average person there must be considerably higher than in the U.S. You include “Asians”, which to me includes China, and I’m going to call absolute bullshit on the idea that most adult Chinese citizens have been overseas.
Really, please clarify and cite.
You make a very good point. Sadly, plenty of working-class Brits will save up not-disimmilar amounts - and then go to Disneyworld. Just because they’ve crossed an ocean, it doesn’t make them any less insular.