# Is the "t" in "often" supposed to be pronounced or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396 "2003-08-15T15:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/1 "2003-08-15T15:21:08Z")
I’ve been smugly informed by my tiny nemesis, The Dictionary Witch down the hall, that my pronouncing the “t” in “often” is incorrect, and that continued, stubborn use of the “t” will be indicative of the fact I am an irredeemable etymological donkey. Is the “t” in often always supposed to be silent? I hear perfectly well educated people using it everyday with the “t” firmly in place. Please help! I don’t want to be a loathsome language 'tard. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/2 "2003-08-15T15:35:38Z")
According to _Webster’s_, either one is correct. Without the “t” is listed first. I have noticed that Dan Rather pronounces it the way that you do. Tell the witch she’s been trumped by and English teacher. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/3 "2003-08-15T15:48:00Z")
Hmmm, I read in a etymology book years ago that the “t” should not be pronounced. This site corroborates this: [http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html](http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html) But, this site has some interesting information and says that “t” can be pronounced: [http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0141.html](http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0141.html) ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/4 "2003-08-15T16:17:13Z")
Welcome to the Boards, **tremorviolet**. You should pronounce “often” as “orphan”. If the Dictionary Witch complains, say that it was clearly a viable way of saying the word in Gilbert and Sullivan’s time. If she objects to _that_, you should say “indeed!” and wonder away confident in the trumping of use over anything else in English. Or burn her. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/5 "2003-08-15T17:03:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tremorviolet \* > \*\*Hmmm, I read in a etymology book years ago that the “t” should not be pronounced. This site corroborates this: [http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html](http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html) > But, this site has some interesting information and says that “t” can be pronounced: [http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0141.html](http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0141.html) \*\* [http://www.dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) also says that the t can be pronounced: > [@](#): > > Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a widespread loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d) in handsome and handkerchief, the § in consumption and raspberry, and the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the consonant clusters were simplified and made easier to articulate. With the rise of public education and literacy and, consequently, people’s awareness of spelling in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes were restored, as is the case with the t in often, which is now frequently pronounced. Personally, I pronounce the t and have never heard of offen being suggested as a valid pronunciation until this thread. I’m from the UK, if that makes a difference. The yourdictionary site does seem to be trying to retain 19th century usage of several words that other dictionaries now recognize as valid modern usage, e.g. it objects to “snuck”, “spitting image”, diphtheria pronounced with a p instead of an f. I do approve of its disapproval or erb, though (to bring up a topic from another recent thread). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/6 "2003-08-15T18:10:00Z")
Technically, the “t” should not be pronounced. The word was originally pronounced “offen.” As people learned how to read, they couldn’t understand that the letter should have been silent. Currently, either is correct, with “offin” more common. The same effect has occurred with words like “comfortable” (which was originally pronounced “comf-terble”) and “victuals” (originally pronounced “vittles”). ---
**Author:** ![robcaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@robcaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robcaro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/7 "2003-08-15T18:31:58Z")
Look at this link for words with silent letters: [http://eleaston.com/aap/c/sl-ex-td.html](http://eleaston.com/aap/c/sl-ex-td.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/8 "2003-08-15T20:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*The same effect has occurred with words like “comfortable” (which was originally pronounced “comf-terble”) and “victuals” (originally pronounced “vittles”). \*\* Is “victuals” pronounced any way other than “vittles”? I’m only aware of the one pronunciation. As for often, the silent “t” is still the preferred pronunciation, but it has become more and more common to pronounce the “t.” I’ve noticed this particularly in the UK, but it’s also prevalent in part of the US (and particularly by newscasters). The pronounced “t” is considered acceptable, although, personally, I still hold to the silent “t.” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/9 "2003-08-15T20:37:35Z")
I used to pronounce the ‘t’ in ‘often’, until one day some one looked at me weird and asked if I pronounced the ‘t’ in ‘soften’. I thought they had a good point. ---
**Author:** ![Kempis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kempis/32/19248_2.png) [@Kempis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kempis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/10 "2003-08-15T20:42:45Z")
I always thought “offen” was just a hurried or slurred way of the proper “often”. That’s interesting. I imagine “offen” can get confused with other words when spoken, but off the top of my head I can’t think of anything that rhymes with “often”. -k ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/11 "2003-08-15T20:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hawthorne \* > \*\*Or burn her. \*\* Or cut her! Cut her so bad she wishes she … she never got cut! Yeah! 😃 (OK, who gets the reference? Be honest.) Anyway, I pronounce it both ways, depending on how hurried I am. `Often' is for careful speech, `offen’ is for casual conversation or when I’m not taking much time to pronounce everything correctly. **Skammer** : I pronounce the t in `soften' about as often as I pronounce the t in `often.’ Neither pronunciation is dead. **Reality Chuck** : I’ve only ever seen victuals in print. I’ve never heard it actually pronounced. I’ve only ever heard vittles, and that not often. In fact, I was kind of confused when I first saw `victuals’ in print (in the book _Made in America_ by Bill Bryson, no less). (Needless to say, I’d pronounce it vittles if I ever actually said it. Which I don’t, to be honest.) ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/12 "2003-08-15T21:10:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _amarone quoted [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com):_ > Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a widespread loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d) in handsome and handkerchief, the § in consumption and raspberry, and the (t) in chestnut and often. “Often” doesn’t seem to fit in this list. In all the other words - handsome, handkerchief, consumption, and raspberry - no one can tell whether you pronounce that consonant or not, because it gets lost in the way it’s sandwiched between other consonant sounds. If I _try_ to pronounce the consonant in those words, it ends up sounding exactly the same. “Often,” on the other hand, doesn’t have another consonant sound after the “t,” so there’s a big difference. Since pronouncing the “t” sound is a fairly recent back-formation based on the spelling, I’d advise you to avoid it. To me, it’s like when someone pronounces “daquiri” as “da-queer-ee.” ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/13 "2003-08-15T22:31:37Z")
I always said “of-Ten” until my dialect teacher in acting college made me practice saying it “of-fen”. Now that I’m a perfessinel copiediter, I know she was full of horse hockey. People say it both ways all over the US, and neither is incorrect. However, some people may notice if you pronounce the T, but few will notice if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/14 "2003-08-15T23:20:48Z")
“Victuals” isn’t pronounced all that often, but usually when someone sees it for the first time, they pronounce it “vick-tuals” until corrected. I don’t think that’s become a standard pronunciation yet, but it may one day. ---
**Author:** ![bterwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@bterwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bterwill)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/15 "2003-08-16T06:38:24Z")
Here’s the OED’s take: > [@](#): > > ('of()n, -; 'oftn, -) Also 4 oftin, 5 oftyn(e, -on, 6 hoften, 8 Sc. aften. [An extended form of OFT, or of its ME. variant ofte. In Chaucer we find ofte before a consonant, often before a vowel or h, as if in imitation of inflexional endings in -en reduced before a consonant to -e; but the earliest examples appear to be northern, and in them oftin occurs before a cons. The word is not common in Standard English till the 16th c.] ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/16 "2003-08-16T06:57:09Z")
I only pronounce the ‘t’ when I use the word ‘oftentimes’ – which ain’t offen. Victuals is pronounced “Vittles???” Damn that Snuffy Smith!! ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/17 "2003-08-16T07:47:56Z")
The ‘t’ in often is not supposed to be pronounced. If you do pronounce it that way you’ll end up sounding like Dan Rather. So do any of you use fabric soff-tenner or just the usual fabric softener… Easy now. I know it’s a living language. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/18 "2003-08-16T07:51:22Z")
This word – often is becoming similar to Palm and Calm and Alms. This L isn’t said. But now it is. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/19 "2003-08-16T13:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*Technically, the “t” should not be pronounced. The word was originally pronounced “offen.” As people learned how to read, they couldn’t understand that the letter should have been silent. > \*\* If that’s the case, then why wasn’t the original spelling simply “offen”? It was my understanding that words with pronunciations radically different from their spelling (“knight” is the one that seems to come up a lot) are generally so because they are spelt the way they were originally pronounced, and then the pronunciation changed. Personally, I pronounce ‘often’ either way, as the whim takes me. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396/20 "2003-08-17T05:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aspidistra \* > **It was my understanding that words with pronunciations radically different from their spelling (“knight” is the one that seems to come up a lot) are generally so because they are spelt the way they were originally pronounced, and then the pronunciation changed.** In the case of ‘knight’ and several similar words (eg. light, might, night, wight, fright) both the pronunciation and the spelling have changed since the days of phonetic spelling. ‘Knight’ was originally ‘knicht’, with nothing silent, and the ‘ch’ as in German. The ‘c’ changed to a ‘g’ after the ‘ch’ became silent in most dialects. The influence of French-speaking Norman scribes, I’m told. Around here the ‘t’ in ‘often’ is, like an initial aspirate in ‘aitch’, heard more often in Catholic schools. I never heard it at my expensive private school in Sydney, and my father (who was educated at Rugby) never used it either. According to Fowler’s (now rather dated) _Modern English Usage_ “The pronunciation _awf’n_ is becoming old-fashioned and _of’n_ or _of’ten_ is now more usual. According to the OED the sounding of the _t_ was not then recognised by the dictionaries. But that was before the speak-as-you-spell movement got under way, and as long ago as 1933 the SOED recorded that the sounding of the _t_ was then frequent in the South of England. That would now be an understatement of its currency. The long-drawn-out joke in _The Pirates of Penzance_—‘When you said _orphan_ did you mean a person who has lost his parents, or _often_, frequently’—will soon be unintelligible to the audience.” (Revised edition, 1968). So tell the Dictionary Witch that she is seventy years behind the times. But pronounce the word _of’n_. Regards, Agback [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-t-in-often-supposed-to-be-pronounced-or-not/195396.md?page=2)