# Is the Taliban any different than ourselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2001, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708 "2001-03-04T07:32:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/1 "2001-03-04T07:32:12Z")
OK. So, I’m appalled at what the Taliban has done in destroying centuries-old Buddhist statues. It’s insensitive, uncalled-for — even under Islamic law — and politically short-sighted on its part. But how different are the Taliban’s actions compared with what American society did in destroying Native American cultures, denying them the right to worship as they wished, denying them the right to teach their children their language and customs, such as Potlatch, and then gathering up their religious and cultural icons and hording them in private collections and museums. Don’t even get me started on the Crusades. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/2 "2001-03-04T07:35:31Z")
Realizing of course that destroying _statues_ isn’t even remotely the worst thing the Taliban is known for doing… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/3 "2001-03-04T16:19:44Z")
I’m sorry, but while “American society” was destroying Native American cultures, my family were serfs in the Ukraine and farmers in Ireland. Yes, the European settlers of North America did terrible things. Are you trying to justify the terrible things the Taliban is doing by pointing out historical terrible things? Last I heard, two wrongs do not make a right, and the destruction of statues in Afganistan can help restore not an iota of any Native American nation’s culture… ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_Bunnyhurt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/4 "2001-03-04T17:14:19Z")
In the 4th and 5th century, Christian emperors in Rome ordered the complete destruction of vastly more numerous and superior art pieces, including entire temples. Some believe that all available nude art of gods at play were joyously eradicated. Hardly anyone talks about it. Afghanistan, same game, different names. It is a standard combination of pride and ignorance, which equals stupidity. Afghanistan is entering its dark ages thanks to their CIA sponsorship and organization to power. The Taliban recently publicly hanged some “prostitutes” (I wonder what that means in Afghanistan). They also outlawed working women and public education of all women, which is leading to the enslavement of children in work camps. The irony is, most Americans are stupidly proud that Afghanistan isn’t communist (Ooh, I was so scared for a minute!). Organized dogma/religion either leads nations to self-destruct, or to quit progressing, depending on how stubborn or vile the dogma needs to be to culturally thrive. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/5 "2001-03-04T21:50:25Z")
I’m not trying to justify anything the Taliban has done either to Buddhist statues or its own people. I’m just making the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish, seems to be at the root of most of our problems today and in the past. We can’t seem to get that notion through our thick heads. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/6 "2001-03-04T23:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JonScribe \* > \*\*I’m not trying to justify anything the Taliban has done either to Buddhist statues or its own people. I’m just making the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish, seems to be at the root of most of our problems today and in the past. We can’t seem to get that notion through our thick heads. \*\* I agree the most murderous groups in the 20th century were fundamentalist religious groups. The NAZI party in Germany, the Communist in China, the Communist in the USSR, and let’s not forget about Pol Pot. Somehow I think it is a simplification to say that fundamentalist religion is the root of most of our problems today or in the past. That isn’t to say that is has never been, is not, or never will be a problem. But the root? HA! Marc ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/7 "2001-03-05T00:01:53Z")
Before the propaganda gets any more out of control, here are [some facts about Taliban](http://www.afghan-politics.org/Reference/Taliban/facts_about_taliban.htm) “The issue of the supposed enigma surrounding the phenomenon of the rise of the Taliban aside, there, however, is a general consensus among the Afghans that the rise of a force to rid the land of the mini-kingdoms, marred by looting and destruction, was but inevitable.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/8 "2001-03-05T00:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JonScribe \* > \*\*I’m not trying to justify anything the Taliban has done either to Buddhist statues or its own people. I’m just making the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish, seems to be at the root of most of our problems today and in the past. We can’t seem to get that notion through our thick heads. \*\* Well then, shouldn’t you be complaining about fundamentalists instead of Americans in general? It’s not like the terms are synomynous. ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/9 "2001-03-05T01:13:02Z")
I would love to stay and chat about the evil Taliban, but I have to get down to my local church. We are having a book and music burning tonight. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/10 "2001-03-05T01:13:04Z")
It is sad that they couldn’t leave the statues alone, but there is a lot to be said for the right of people to determine things for their own land. (Since the Nazi card had already been played, I don’t feel to bad about the following analogy.) 🙂 Suppose there was a 50 foot tall statue of Adolf Hitler in your town square. I would certainly be among those trying to get it torn down.(and I’m not naive enoguh to think there woudn’t be a few moron fighting for the statue) And if some country, say China, made an offical objection to it being torn down, on the grounds that it represented the feeling of some people I wouldn’t really give a shit. I would have to say the statue situation sucks, but among things in Afganistan that I would fight hard against its just not where to make a stand. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/11 "2001-03-05T04:53:42Z")
Let us not forget the Spanish Monks who destroyed the entire (almost) written record of Central America…“In the name of God” ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/12 "2001-03-05T08:00:27Z")
Alright, then. Let me revise my last statement. Maybe the real problem is fundamentalist beliefs and the unrational fear of others beliefs, religious in nature or otherwise. What it comes down to is someone’s fear that because another or a group believes and/or acts differently than he, his only response is to control or destroy those with beliefs different than his own. Eliminate those with other values than yourself, and you no longer are forced to contemplate the validity of your own beliefs and you can get on to the more important things in life such as — in the case of the Taliban — maintaining your control over your people or — in the case of the United State’s destruction of Native American societies — moving soverign nations out of the way so you can exploit the region’s resources and expand your own country and provide lovely suburban homes for people who think and pray and consume just as you do. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/13 "2001-03-05T16:09:06Z")
I think the real problem is not with the dogma or the religiousity but with the uncontrolled government. As has already been pointed out there have been atrocities in atheistic states such as the USSR and Cambodia as well as totally religous states such as Afghanistan. The one constant is the the totalitarian nature of the governments where nothing is out of the governments control and the government is not trying to maintain order but to transform society. The lesson of the 20th century is that when government is unrestrained bad things happen. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2001, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/14 "2001-03-27T14:52:45Z")
From [Backstage at the News of the Weird .138](http://www.newsoftheweird.com/backstage/index.html) > [@](#): > > The Afghan Taliban moved up several notches in esteem, in Yr Ed’s opinion. > Recall, last month, the Mullah ordered the destruction of what were reportedly > the world’s two largest statues of Buddha. The reason, it turns out from a > statement last week, was not mere religious pique but anger at a U.N. commission > that offered the Taliban a trunkful of money to preserve the statues after not > offering a trunkful to feed Afghanistan’s starving children. I guess they aren’t so different from us after all. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/15 "2001-03-28T19:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by JonScribe \* > > \*\*I’m not trying to justify anything the Taliban has done either to Buddhist statues or its own people. I’m just making the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Jewish, seems to be at the root of most of our problems today and in the past. We can’t seem to get that notion through our thick heads. \*\* > > I agree the most murderous groups in the 20th century were fundamentalist religious groups. The NAZI party in Germany, the Communist in China, the Communist in the USSR, and let’s not forget about Pol Pot. > > Somehow I think it is a simplification to say that fundamentalist religion is the root of most of our problems today or in the past. That isn’t to say that is has never been, is not, or never will be a problem. But the root? HA! > > Marc \*\* Though aggressively secular for the most part, the regimes you mentioned more or less made the State itself a religion. The refusal to brook any opposition or debate certainly resembles the structure of a fundamentalist religious organization. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2001, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/16 "2001-03-28T20:27:36Z")
If we’re talking about the destruction of artwork and culture, don’t forget the Allied bombing of Dresden in WWII. And yes, yes, what the Europeans did to the native tribes was awful and unforgiveable . . . But let’s not forget the various tribes were slaughtering and enslaving the hell out of each other before we ever got here . . . ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2001, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-taliban-any-different-than-ourselves/56708/17 "2001-03-28T21:22:48Z")
Shouldn’t that be, “different from”? 😉 [ducks and runs]