# Is the term "master bedroom" offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001 "2021-04-14T20:50:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/81 "2021-04-15T12:33:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wut?? I’m asking about people’s opinion of the Toronto Real Estate Board edict. The Toronto Real Estate Board is in charge of their own affairs, it has nothing to do with me, and I don’t see them trying to make it catch on with the broader public. Let them set their own terminology. It’s never been a hot-button issue for me, but I will say in software I’ve seen a broad replacement of the terms “master” and “slave” for machines that are controllers vs. controlled. Being replaced by primary/secondary, or leader/follower, or various other equivalent terms that represent the controller/controlled relationship. I wouldn’t support, like, a moonshot effort to go rename everything that uses master/slave terminology, but if it’s part of the normal update cycle to name new things, then why not abandon language that’s even mildly loaded or hurtful, if there are 100% equivalent terms to represent that concept? Having said that, “primary bedroom?” Ugh, I’d have gone with “main”, which already has some currency. But again, it’s nothing to do with me and I won’t devote any further brain cells to this. ---
**Author:** ![Keith1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Keith1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/82 "2021-04-15T12:34:57Z")
What will happen with the trades? Master plumber, master electrician, master tool & die maker etc. Mind you the trades have been nearly decimated now anyway through cheap disposable parts and even cheaper inexperienced labour. And what about master in terms of a young boy? Oh I forgot. Gender has already been eliminated. There are no more boys & girls. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/83 "2021-04-15T12:37:35Z")
> [@Keith1](#): > > What will happen with the trades? Master plumber, master electrician, master tool & die maker etc. Right, we have no other words in the English language such as ‘chief’ or ‘senior’ or ‘expert’ to represent this concept. > [@Keith1](#): > > Oh I forgot. Gender has already been eliminated. There are no more boys & girls. I have one of each in my home, but for some reason I don’t think I’d want to show you pictures of proof. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/84 "2021-04-15T12:38:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The Toronto Real Estate Board is in charge of their own affairs, it has nothing to do with me, and I don’t see them trying to make it catch on with the broader public. Let them set their own terminology. To repeat part of my post #68, this is much more than just “their” terminology … > … this isn’t some private club that can feel free to engage in whatever language variations they feel like developing. This is a real estate board, which governs the buying and selling of houses and the language in which these properties are described. They are thus uniquely influential in changing the language _ **for everyone** _ in their particular subject domain. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/85 "2021-04-15T12:40:48Z")
It has never occurred to me to think about the term “master bedroom”. But having now given it a couple minutes of thought, i am happy to replace the term. > [@Shalmanese](#): > > To me, master bedroom doesn’t have any connotations to slavery but it sounds very patriarchal. Like, the master bedroom is for the master of the house to sleep in because he is he economic provider and this justifies that he rules over his domestic domain and establishes the rules and order of the house. All of this. > [@Princhester](#): > > It’s the very architecture of the modern house that is an oppressive and ever present reminder of the jackboot heels of the parent-iarchy keeping us down. I was going to write a long reply to this, but @Shalmanese > [@Is the term "master bedroom" offensive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/78): > > I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic with this or not but I wanted to write about this but ultimately decided to leave it out. Beyond just the nomenclature, I do agree with you that the modern American house design bakes in an associate between space and status that feels problematic in many different contexts but especially in the context of family. Often, the master bedroom isn’t just bigger but also is built with more luxurious furnishings and higher end features under the assumption that… already said it better than i was going to. I’ll just add that i have a number of friends who have been inconvenienced by this pattern of architecture, and one who bought a new house to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/86 "2021-04-15T12:42:23Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > To repeat part of my post #68, this is much more than just “their” terminology … To repeat part of my post, > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The Toronto Real Estate Board is in charge of their own affairs, it has nothing to do with me, I do not care if everyone in Toronto now has to list their properties as “primary bedroom” rather than “master bedroom.” Nothing of value is lost. I find it clunky and I’d have chosen “main/second”, but that’s a purely aesthetic concern. There’s no good argument in favor of getting rid of ‘master’, and they’re not trying to foist it on the general public or get it to “catch on”. That’s my red-line territory for this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/87 "2021-04-15T12:51:11Z")
I think they should do away with it but not for PC reasons. My chief reason is that the term is simply inaccurate. “Master” implies control, as if the “Master Bedroom” somehow controls the other bedrooms. Example: “Master Cylinder” - " In automotive engineering, the _master cylinder_ is a control device that converts force (commonly from a driver’s foot) into hydraulic pressure. This device controls slave _cylinders_ located at the other end of the hydraulic brake system." ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/88 "2021-04-15T12:58:26Z")
I’m not a fan of the use of master in this context (here, I think “main bedroom” gets more use) but that’s for conceptual metaphor reasons, not any associations with real slavery or patriarchy. > [@kanicbird](#): > > My dad has a house that not only had a master bedroom/bathroom but also ‘servant’s quarters’. This is on the blueprints of a house built in the early 70’s. This, or “maid’s quarters”, would have been very common on most any White middle-class home in South Africa up until the 90s. They’re less common now, but still there (and sometimes still called that) on some houses. > [@Keith1](#): > > And what about master in terms of a young boy? Honestly, who still uses this (unironically) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/89 "2021-04-15T13:07:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “Master of the house” itself is a somewhat loaded term, with historical connotations of classism and sexism. _Master of the house, doling out the charm_ _Ready with a handshake and an open palm_ _Tells a saucy tale, makes a little stir_ _Customers appreciate a bon-viveur_ _Glad to do a friend a favor_ _Doesn’t cost me to be nice_ _But nothing gets you nothing_ _Everything has got a little price!_ _Everybody raise a glass_ _Raise it up the master’s arse_ _Everybody raise a glass to the Master of the House!_ ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/90 "2021-04-15T13:08:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Honestly, who still uses this (unironically) Top shelf butlers. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/91 "2021-04-15T13:33:57Z")
Was speaking w/ someone from SC a couple of weeks ago, and they brought up this subject. I thought it stupid, tho possibly less so in SC w/ it’s history. IIRC, she said they used some word other than “primary”. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/92 "2021-04-15T13:50:44Z")
> [@Keith1](#): > > What will happen with the trades? Master plumber, master electrician, master tool & die maker etc. You’re like the third person to make that joke, so maybe just read the entire thread. > [@Jasmine](#): > > I think they should do away with it but not for PC reasons. My chief reason is that the term is simply inaccurate. “Master” implies control, as if the “Master Bedroom” somehow controls the other bedrooms. No one is saying the bedroom controls the other bedroom, they’re saying it’s the bedroom that belongs to the master. Having said that if it was called the “Master’s Bedroom”, I’m guessing we would have done away with the term a lot longer ago. That just sounds bad. I think the last time I heard someone referred to as the master of the house was in Mary Poppins. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/93 "2021-04-15T13:53:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The Toronto Real Estate Board is in charge of their own affairs, it has nothing to do with me, and I don’t see them trying to make it catch on with the broader public. Let them set their own terminology. Yeah, that’s kind of my view of this. Not my monkey, not my circus. To be honest, though, I don’t use the term “master bedroom.” I’ve always called it a “main bedroom,” not for any political reason but that “master bedroom” just sounds old fashioned and clunky to my ears. If words change with the times, I don’t really care. There’s plenty of other words, and I can still use the old words if I want. Language change is not something that ever gets me het up, and I’m someone who loves language, both from a linguistic and literature angle (having a degree in English lit myself.) The shifts of language fascinate me. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/94 "2021-04-15T13:56:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I wouldn’t support, like, a moonshot effort to go rename everything that uses master/slave terminology, but if it’s part of the normal update cycle to name new things, then why not abandon language that’s even mildly loaded or hurtful, if there are 100% equivalent terms to represent that concept? This is where I’m at. My wife and I watch a fair amount of HGTV content, and they’ve made the transition pretty strongly. Not everyone is an etymologist, and loaded words like “master” carry a lot of weight, even in situations where the origin isn’t racist. In the world of fantasy baseball and football, there’s an industry-wide effort underway to avoid words and phrases like “owning a player” and even having an “auction”. Most platforms have transitioned from “owning/buying” to “rostering”, “auction league” to “salary cap league”, etc. The change to “rostering” is easy - it makes a lot of sense. “Salary cap league” is much harder - for one thing, there are league set ups that have been called “salary cap leagues” that are structured much differently than an auction league. The industry has not taken to that one nearly as easily, and I still see it used all over the place. These things are hard. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/95 "2021-04-15T14:01:21Z")
And “disabled list” has been “injured list” for a couple seasons now. (I know, not related to racial terminology, but since MLB has been brought up.) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/96 "2021-04-15T14:52:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > this isn’t some private club that can feel free to engage in whatever language variations they feel like developing. This is a real estate board, which governs the buying and selling of houses and the language in which these properties are described. They are thus uniquely influential in changing the language _ **for everyone** _ in their particular subject domain. That’s still a long way from “is banned from the language”. And professional groups of various types declare that particular language should be used within their group all the time. There are official terms for sizes of garlic, and if I were selling into certain markets those are the terms that I’d have to use. There is a lot of technical terminology within the real estate industry. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they used to _prescribe_ “master bedroom” as the standard terminology, and are now only switching to prescribing something else. > [@Melbourne](#): > > Since ‘master’ is the term used to indicate a male child, and we’re all adults here, maybe we could call it the Mister Bedroom In which anyone who suggests that it belongs primarily to males gets sprayed at intervals with water? > [@Shalmanese](#): > > I do agree with you that the modern American house design bakes in an associate between space and status that feels problematic in many different contexts but especially in the context of family. It makes sense (as you do say) for a room designed to be occupied full time by two adults to be larger than one designed for one person or for temporary guests. But I’ve for years now thought it odd and unpleasant to see the exaggerated form of this I see in some (not all) modern architecture, in which the “master suite” takes up a huge percentage of the house and all the other bedrooms are barely big enough to be called such. Not only is this a problem if the people occupying the house aren’t at all points one adult couple plus small children; but, even when that is the composition, the adults are basically in charge of the whole rest of the house, aren’t they? while the children have only their individual rooms as their territory. That sort of layout seems to me to imply that only the adults really matter, and the children are a sort of afterthought who need to be fit into a corner somehow. > [@Keith1](#): > > what about master in terms of a young boy? That was already effectively dead when I was a child. And I was a child in the 1950’s. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/97 "2021-04-15T15:08:58Z")
I can see the objection to “master bedroom” as being racist/sexist, I think the objection to master/slave in computing is kind of ridiculous. Re: a bedroom there’s a living space where actual people are masters or not-masters. In computing it’s purely a metaphor, and not related to the U.S. or any other actual place. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/98 "2021-04-15T15:53:25Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > > [@eschrodinger](#): > > > > > [@Ulfreida](#): > > > > > > I’m calling it the mistress bedroom from now on. Try and stop me. > > > > This could definitely cause confusion. > > “Contemporary home with upstairs mistress bedroom…” > > They both sound dirty to me now. It does rather suggest that you installed ringbolts to attach the harnesses, and reinforced the ceiling joists to support the love swing. > [@Shalmanese](#): > > Beyond just the nomenclature, I do agree with you that the modern American house design bakes in an associate between space and status that feels problematic in many different contexts but especially in the context of family. Often, the master bedroom isn’t just bigger but also is built with more luxurious furnishings and higher end features under the assumption that the master of the house “deserves” to be living in nicer circumstances than the other members and that houses serve to reinforce hierarchy for the nuclear, atomic family that lives in them. I wonder if architects made “master” bedrooms, closets, and bathrooms larger in the assumption that they’ll be occupied by more than one person? Until I read this thread, it had never occurred to me that our architecture reflects social conventions that can be outdated (i.e., Ward and June in the grown-up bedroom, with a big closet for Ward’s suits and June’s twinsets and pearls, while Wally and the Beaver are in the smaller bedrooms). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/99 "2021-04-15T15:55:22Z")
[quote=“Munch, post:94, topic:940001”] "Salary cap league” is much harder - for one thing, there are league set ups that have been called “salary cap leagues” that are structured much differently than an auction league. [/quote] What the heck is wrong with the term salary cap league? It mimics the structure of the real world salary cap and real world league and team decisions. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001/100 "2021-04-15T16:09:01Z")
I understand their concern, as I do business writing. It does smack of male dominance in the word, but I do think that the TREB members need to have more going on in their lives. Even as a feminist and a writer, this one hadn’t occurred to me. Calling it “main” makes sense, but I am not offended by the term “master bedroom” to indicate the largest bedroom in the home. I’m going to add: give me a week to think about it because the term master really can be offensive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-term-master-bedroom-offensive/940001.md?page=6)