# Is the Time Coming When There Just Aren't Enough Jobs to Go Around? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360 "2010-05-05T01:27:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/61 "2010-05-06T10:52:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you live like people lived in the 50s, you can more easily support yourself on one salary. When I was growing up, we never ate out at restaurants. We had 1 B&W TV, and my mom made most of our clothes herself. This was in the 60s, not the 50s. Hardly anyone lives like that these days. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Dad grew up in the '50s, living like that. He hated it. I suspect most people growing up then living like that did, too. Reminded me of [this brief thing](http://www.lileks.com/institute/archives/9/2.html) I saw on [lileks.com](http://lileks.com) about an old magazine article about how to make your own “tin can lamp”: > [@](#): > > It’s not that he’s not a good man - he is. He loves the children, he’s a dutiful husband, sober, church-going, and a good provider. And he has a point: those department stores don’t have big flashy buildings because they’re giving things away. Yes, that lamp down at Hempel’s was expensive, but if she bought the cheaper cuts of meat for a month the budget would’ve been fine. (If she could find cheaper cuts, that is; he was always suspicious when there wasn’t a bone in the pork chops, and sometimes made her fish it out of the garbage and show it to him to prove she wasn’t getting those fancy Rockefeller-style cuts.) > > It’s just that sometimes when she’s squinting at her darning, she looks over at the lamp, and she begins to cry. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/62 "2010-05-06T10:55:05Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Who has the personal computer completely put out of work on a grand scale? 😕 Remember the ‘Secretarial Pool’? Gone. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/63 "2010-05-06T11:07:32Z")
Posting from Taiwan: I really tried to make a go of it finding a job in the US, after I got my MBA. It just wasn’t happening. After a couple of months I ended up getting discouraged and settled in the short term for a job for which I was laughably overqualified. Perhaps if I had kept on knocking my head against the wall I might have still made a go of it. But eventually I began to feel, what’s the point? I knew that as soon as I had returned to Asia, I’d have a suitable professional job within a week of landing at the airport. And that’s what happened. I rewrote this post as the first time I was going to talk about how I don’t have much immediate worries here and I’m able to support my family on just my salary, but in tone it’d probably sound 180 degrees from what I intend – I sure don’t care for the fact that I’m unable to find a corresponding job in my own country, and though I feel a little (just a little) reassured about my kid’s future as I’m going to make sure she attends school here and becomes fully literate in both Chinese and English – I sure didn’t expect that to be an absolute must for her, rather than a “nice to have” thing to chat about on her resume. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/64 "2010-05-06T11:16:06Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My point is I’m tired of people mentioning “Buggy Whip Manufacturers” whenever people ending up out of work due to changes in technology or society come along. There’s a gigantic difference between a technology that took 60 years to become so niche as to be non-existent, and millions of skilled workers waking up one morning and discovering that A) They no longer have a job and B) The skills they’ve got _aren’t_ obsolete, there’s just not enough positions for those skills. You know we’ve had recessions before, right? The current recession sucks a lot, but it’s not a new phenomenon and, like all previous recessions, it will go away. [QUOTE=Declan] The one job thats perenially under sourced is tool and die, simply because we simply do not hire kids out of school and apprentice them. [/QUOTE] Good welders are always in short supply as well, as are truck drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/65 "2010-05-06T12:50:33Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Remember the ‘Secretarial Pool’? Gone. Didn’t most of them just become generic “administrative staff”? That’s what Mum’s friends did, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/66 "2010-05-06T13:15:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why are they mutually exclusive? Blue-collar doesn’t have to mean “uneducated”. What is “uneducated”? Someone who spends 4 years as an apprentice basket weaver probably knows more about how to weave baskets than someone who majors in basket weaving at university. Both people are educated only in different ways. As I’ve said in other threads, I’ve had guys come out of university with computer science degrees that I wouldn’t want to touch a computer. I’d much rather have a tech from a technical college do such work. Who is more educated? It depends on the job you want them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/67 "2010-05-06T13:17:59Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Didn’t most of them just become generic “administrative staff”? That’s what Mum’s friends did, at any rate. Yes, but companies are shedding those folks now, too. A lot of things I used to do - arrange travel, arrange shipping, find information - is now done by managers themselves at their own desks using their own computers. Thus, “generic administrative staff” have become largely redundant and have been cut from the workforce in vast numbers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/68 "2010-05-06T13:32:57Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Who has the personal computer completely put out of work on a grand scale? 😕 Typewriter manufacturers. Secretaries. And remember we’re talking about a comparison to buggy whip manufacturers. I don’t think we would call that employment on a “grand scale”. The point is that there are many such examples, all that add up to a re-alignment of employment opportunities. Telephone operators. Typists. Gas station attendants. Bank tellers. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/69 "2010-05-06T13:37:25Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > …There are thousands of students graduating in Australia with Media degrees every year, but there aren’t thousands of Media jobs being created every year to employ them. Then why on Earth are those thousands of students wasting their time, money, and energy getting those degrees? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That sounds like more of a problem of people picking the wrong majors. There is still a shortage of many professions in this country. When we export R&D, we are not trying to save money on salaries for scientists and engineers, we are trying to find enough scientists and engineers to do the research taht we need. Perhaps people need to realize taht they can’t all be Connie Chung. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Couldn’t agree more. We have way too many people with useless majors, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have liberal arts majors but the only liberal art majors that get really good jobs graduate from places like Princeton or Amherst and those employers are hiring raw material, they are not hiring a skill set. Exactly. I don’t understand all of the people who go to college working toward a degree with no plan for their life whatsoever, and no clue as to how that degree might help them get a job at some point. In my experience, we have far too many people leaving college with liberal arts degrees, and far too few leaving college with technical decrees. The U.S. gives gives out thousands of technical work visas to foreigners because we can’t find enough qualified engineers, for example. While the numbers of college graduates has increased greatly over the years, the number of graduates with technical decrees has not increased much at all, or has actually decreased. Why is this? ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/70 "2010-05-06T14:24:02Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Then why on Earth are those thousands of students wasting their time, money, and energy getting those degrees? > > Exactly. I don’t understand all of the people who go to college working toward a degree with no plan for their life whatsoever, and no clue as to how that degree might help them get a job at some point. > > In my experience, we have far too many people leaving college with liberal arts degrees, and far too few leaving college with technical decrees. The U.S. gives gives out thousands of technical work visas to foreigners because we can’t find enough qualified engineers, for example. While the numbers of college graduates has increased greatly over the years, the number of graduates with technical decrees has not increased much at all, or has actually decreased. Why is this? It’s simple. People choose to study what they are interested in. Works out well for the ones that do get a job! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/71 "2010-05-06T15:44:20Z")
> [@carm](#): > > It’s simple. People choose to study what they are interested in. Works out well for the ones that do get a job! But not so well for those who don’t. For example, back as an undergraduate, I was equally interested in engineering, chemistry, and history. However, it was fairly obvious that the job prospects were far greater for someone with a degree in the first two fields of study than the latter. This was a large factor in me getting a degree in chemical engineering. However, I have not lost my interest in history. I took electives in history, and have continued to read books on history since graduating. There’s nothing to say that one can’t continue to learn after college. Besides, how many people who get degrees in history actually work as historians? Most end up getting a job that has no relation to their degree. I’m not saying that everyone should pick a course of study and/or a career based solely on what can lead to the most lucrative job. However, it should be a factor, IMHO. I’m actually dealing with this is with my son. My goal for him is to be happy in life. One way to enhance one’s happiness is to be gainfully employed. I don’t want him to have to struggle to get work his whole life. In discussing various career options, he has heard that lawyers make a lot of money. However, I have encouraged him not to become a lawyer solely for the money. For one thing, many lawyers don’t make as much money as people think, and those that do generally have a poor work-life balance. On the other hand, if he expresses an interest in something like “Art History,” and wishes to get a decree in this, I would also encourage him to evaluate what he can do with that degree after graduation. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/72 "2010-05-06T16:04:22Z")
What kind of colleges are people going to where their graduates can’t eventually find jobs? I understand that it’s tough starting out as a new college grad and that people may not get the job they wanted, but everyone I know eventually finds work. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/73 "2010-05-06T17:04:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What kind of colleges are people going to where their graduates can’t eventually find jobs? I understand that it’s tough starting out as a new college grad and that people may not get the job they wanted, but everyone I know eventually finds work. [Not hardly.](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/jobs-recent-college-graduates-discouraged-students-leaving-workforce/story?id=9933402). My daughter is graduating this month, a year late from spending a year studying in Germany. Many of her friends who graduated last year are either unemployed or under-employed. Lots of companies have special programs for hiring new college grads, but a lot of these are shut down after laying off lots of people. This is a problem that will get better when the recession is over. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/74 "2010-05-06T17:48:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In my 30 years of experience in the computer business, I’ve seen lots of similar situations. Hate to break it to you, but every one of these people has a business model showing them with a decent app market share. There is going to be an inevitable shakeout, and most of those 20,000 people are going to be looking for something else to do very soon. It happened with minicomputers, it happened with PCs, it happened with office apps, it happened with web apps, it will happen with this. Low cost of entry encourages even more to join in. Hope your company has a plan B, or a real killer app. Oh, it’s both. We have a plan B and a killer app. The company’s been around for almost twenty years, so it’s not like we’re a naive start-up, We already make a good profit selling software not related to smart phone apps. The apps business is just icing on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/75 "2010-05-06T18:27:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In my 30 years of experience in the computer business, I’ve seen lots of similar situations. Hate to break it to you, but every one of these people has a business model showing them with a decent app market share. There is going to be an inevitable shakeout, and most of those 20,000 people are going to be looking for something else to do very soon. It happened with minicomputers, it happened with PCs, it happened with office apps, it happened with web apps, it will happen with this. Low cost of entry encourages even more to join in. Hope your company has a plan B, or a real killer app. There will inevitably be companies which don’t survive the shakeup but that doesn’t mean the number jobs will decrease in the long run. The number of people working in the software industry today is vastly greater than say 1980 despite the ups and downs individual PC software companies may have faced since then. The gaming industry melted down in the famous crash of 1983, today it’s vastly larger than its peak before that. In general automation often means lower costs for businesses and lower prices for customers. This means more money that can be spent on other things which means more jobs. Since we don’t know exactly what people will spend on we can’t predict the exact industries but the broad picture is reasonably clear. Rich countries will experience rapidly ageing populations who will have to be looked after. Many of these elderly people are wealthy and many of the others will have government-funded care so the demand is definitely there. There is enormous scope for job-creation in the education industry as well. Students can learn much better if they have individual attention both for regular instruction and to spot learning/behavioral disabilities. A lot of these jobs especially in regular instruction could be carried out by people with a general college education. The only constraint is a lack resources but if automation could release resources from other areas you could easily create millions of jobs in education. In general I think people underestimate the number of potential jobs that are out there but not being created because of a lack of demand. Then they don’t understand the fact that forces like automation and outsourcing will help shift demand thereby making those potential jobs viable. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/76 "2010-05-06T19:55:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [Not hardly.](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/jobs-recent-college-graduates-discouraged-students-leaving-workforce/story?id=9933402). My daughter is graduating this month, a year late from spending a year studying in Germany. Many of her friends who graduated last year are either unemployed or under-employed. Lots of companies have special programs for hiring new college grads, but a lot of these are shut down after laying off lots of people. If I may address the question of being “under employed” for a moment. I realize a lot of graduates say things like they didn’t go to college to work at a Starbucks or Banana Republic or whereever, but what exactly did they go to college for? What is it they think some big company should pay them lots of money to actually do? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/77 "2010-05-06T20:05:12Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Posting from Taiwan: I really tried to make a go of it finding a job in the US, after I got my MBA. It just wasn’t happening. After a couple of months I ended up getting discouraged and settled in the short term for a job for which I was laughably overqualified. Perhaps if I had kept on knocking my head against the wall I might have still made a go of it. But eventually I began to feel, what’s the point? I knew that as soon as I had returned to Asia, I’d have a suitable professional job within a week of landing at the airport. And that’s what happened. > > I rewrote this post as the first time I was going to talk about how I don’t have much immediate worries here and I’m able to support my family on just my salary, but in tone it’d probably sound 180 degrees from what I intend – I sure don’t care for the fact that I’m unable to find a corresponding job in my own country, and though I feel a little (just a little) reassured about my kid’s future as I’m going to make sure she attends school here and becomes fully literate in both Chinese and English – I sure didn’t expect that to be an absolute must for her, rather than a “nice to have” thing to chat about on her resume. Can someone from the US find a professional job overseas? I was under the impression the only jobs you could get was teaching english. Do you know if someone from the US can get a job in a scientific field overseas? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/78 "2010-05-06T20:08:57Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What kind of colleges are people going to where their graduates can’t eventually find jobs? I understand that it’s tough starting out as a new college grad and that people may not get the job they wanted, but everyone I know eventually finds work. I guess that settles it. Spain, which has a 40% youth unemployment rate, is just full of slackers. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/79 "2010-05-06T20:20:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [Not hardly.](http://abcnews.go.com/Business/jobs-recent-college-graduates-discouraged-students-leaving-workforce/story?id=9933402). My daughter is graduating this month, a year late from spending a year studying in Germany. Many of her friends who graduated last year are either unemployed or under-employed. Lots of companies have special programs for hiring new college grads, but a lot of these are shut down after laying off lots of people. > > This is a problem that will get better when the recession is over. I honestly don’t know if it’ll get better after the recession is over. I have read that large numbers of baby boomers do not intend to retire for various reasons (boredom, lack of financial security). As a result those positions will not open up for young people to take. Not only that but job creation has been shit for 10 years. I think the US created about 5 million jobs in 10 years before the recession wiped those out, plus 3 million more (we had 132 million jobs in 2000, we have 129 million in 2010). Normal historical job creation for that period would have been 20-30 million net jobs and we should’ve been at about 160 million jobs by now. When you add it all up (the recession + lack of job creation from last 10 years) the US is probably about 30 million jobs short of what our population ‘needs’. Not only that, but job creation in the future will to a large degree be in low wage, low security, no benefits service sector jobs. Food service, low wage health fields like CNAs, landscapers, receptionists, etc. > **[Table 6. Occupations with the most job growth, 2014-24](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecopro.t06.htm)** So you add in the drastic shortage of jobs, the fact that new job creation will be low wage, part time, no benefit jobs with boomers who cannot/will not retire from decently paying, full time jobs with benefits and young people are screwed for a long time. I really don’t think things will be good next year or the year after that. This seems to be a structural problem in our economy. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360/80 "2010-05-06T20:25:46Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > There will inevitably be companies which don’t survive the shakeup but that doesn’t mean the number jobs will decrease in the long run. The number of people working in the software industry today is vastly greater than say 1980 despite the ups and downs individual PC software companies may have faced since then. The gaming industry melted down in the famous crash of 1983, today it’s vastly larger than its peak before that. Eventually, no doubt, especially if you consider the fast growing market for Android apps also. But right now there are a lot of people all working on the same apps, and many of them won’t be around soon. We’re going to move into an area because everyone else is there already is not a real great business model. I was mostly telling **suranyi** to not be very thrilled, but it is good that the company is not betting the farm on this thing. > [@](#): > > In general automation often means lower costs for businesses and lower prices for customers. This means more money that can be spent on other things which means more jobs. Since we don’t know exactly what people will spend on we can’t predict the exact industries but the broad picture is reasonably clear. Rich countries will experience rapidly ageing populations who will have to be looked after. Many of these elderly people are wealthy and many of the others will have government-funded care so the demand is definitely there. The issue is whether the jobs created by improved productivity are better or worse than the jobs eliminated. Yes home and nursing home nursing jobs will increase, but I doubt they pay as well as many jobs eliminated - and I write checks for my father’s nurse every two weeks, so I know. > [@](#): > > There is enormous scope for job-creation in the education industry as well. Students can learn much better if they have individual attention both for regular instruction and to spot learning/behavioral disabilities. A lot of these jobs especially in regular instruction could be carried out by people with a general college education. The only constraint is a lack resources but if automation could release resources from other areas you could easily create millions of jobs in education. However at the moment jobs in the ed biz are disappearing. The problem is not a lack of teachers, or even skilled non-teachers. It is a lack of financial resources to pay for them. The “freeing up” of resources reduces the tax base, and makes the electorate even less willing to pay for schools. In California the number of students per teacher has gone up, not down, recently. > [@](#): > > In general I think people underestimate the number of potential jobs that are out there but not being created because of a lack of demand. Then they don’t understand the fact that forces like automation and outsourcing will help shift demand thereby making those potential jobs viable. How does automation increase demand? In some instances it does by decreasing prices, (as does offshoring) but on the other hand it also decreases demand by decreasing the customer base. Take computer manufacturing. 20 years ago this was mostly done in-house, and IBM, HP. Compaq, and AT&T all had manufacturing plants. Now most of the work is done by contract manufacturers, except perhaps for final assembly. It is a lot more efficient, in that equipment and expertise are shared across several customers, but the manufacturing engineers I used to work with are all gone, and they didn’t go to the CMs. some CM jobs are in the US, but many are not. There are other side effects. Equipment manufacturers used to have sales teams to sell to a large number of customers - now they sell to a half dozen so the teams are reduced. There is less need to advertise, so trade journals are closing, and less to exhibit at conferences, which are shrinking. If there are six customers in the world, developing new products is a lot riskier, since you are dead if these companies reject you - so the manufacturing equipment sector is consolidating, taking with it even more jobs. Now the upside is that cheaper computing equipment creates new market segments - but if the manufacturing engineers start working tech support they will see their standard of living be reduced - which leads to less demand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-time-coming-when-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/538360.md?page=5)