# Is the tuxedo fading from common use? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813 "2008-08-21T16:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/81 "2008-08-26T07:06:17Z")
Being a gentleman is not a matter of economic status. Money can’t buy you class. What it is, first and foremost, is taking pride in your appearance, and presenting an image to others as someone who _cares_ - cares about looking as sharp as they can, cares about being honest and well-spoken, and cares about being taken seriously. In other words, it’s the opposite of a “slob.” A gentleman dresses up for a formal occasion. He shines his shoes even if the shoes cost 20 dollars. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/82 "2008-08-26T13:22:55Z")
And let’s not forget our brave boys and girls at the front. As General Melchett once said:\* “no use winning the war over here only to go home to Blighty and find everyone wearing overalls and breaking wind in the palaces of the mighty”.\* Think of the troops! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/83 "2008-08-26T14:21:41Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Being a gentleman is not a matter of economic status. Money can’t buy you class. What it is, first and foremost, is taking pride in your appearance, and presenting an image to others as someone who _cares_ - cares about looking as sharp as they can, cares about being honest and well-spoken, and cares about being taken seriously. In other words, it’s the opposite of a “slob.” A gentleman dresses up for a formal occasion. He shines his shoes even if the shoes cost 20 dollars. [/QUOTE] Hell, even if he dumpster dove for those shoes… You may be poor, but you can be clean and neat in appearance. It’s not about money at all–it’s about personal pride and wanting to make others comfortable. Thinking about others more than about oneself. A radical concept in this day and age. Correction to my above post: no one wears formal wear to a funeral in America, that I know of. It wouldn’t be a bad thing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/84 "2008-08-26T14:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Ah. I didn’t realize we had such outdated thinking here on the Dope. [/quote] The substance of “gentleman” was rejected long ago. The superficial trappings of “gentleman” are just taking longer to die out, but they are fading. > [@](#): > > she is either a gentlewoman or a lady > [@](#): > > Why, they probably ask a lady if she would like to go first in line! A gilded cage. A competent person hobbled by the thick application of flattery and the pretense of status. > [@](#): > > Pardon me, but you sound more than a tad bitter. I’m not the one lamenting the loss of the social power to bend all society to one’s own clothing preferences. I see the casual-ification of society and the discarding of arbitrary and superficial “standards” as something to be celebrated. I’m not bitter; I’m jubilant. > [@](#): > > You seem to have an antiquated notion of what being a gentleman entails. I’m not the one lamenting the loss of “gentlemen,” so I don’t think I harbor as many antiquated notions as people who are. > [@](#): > > Seems to me that being unfair, dishonest and impolite knows no bounds–no matter your class. Of course. The difference is that non-gentlemen must fear the application of the law and other social punishments. Gentlemen could get away with it, so long as it was not another gentleman who was the victim. > [@](#): > > But here is the catch:\* it is used that way by those whose claim to the status of lady or gentleman is shown to be false by the very behavior they exhibit.\* Nae True Scotsman puts sugar in his oats. And No True Christian has ever committed wrong. > [@](#): > > This is just not true. … As I said, even the pioneers (or the coal miner) had a clean collar to wear to church or to a funeral etc. _You’re_ the one who said that someone who could not meet the standard for dress should stay at home. Either the clean collar (or whatever – it’s arbitrary anyway) meets that standard or doesn’t. > [@](#): > > I can see that you are quite exercised by the notion of wearing a slightly different outfit just because. This sentence doesn’t actually make any sense to me. But in point of fact, I’m not exercised about anything. So far as I can tell, things are going my way: - 44 B.C.E.: Gaius Julius Caesar is stabbed for aspiring to kingship. - 1789/93: The Bastille is stormed and Marie Antoinette gets the chop. - 1961: John F. Kennedy puts aside his tophat to deliver his inaugural address. - 1999: Hereditary peers are ejected from the House of Lords. - 2008: Jeff Dunman attends his sister’s wedding wearing a Metallica T-shirt, pajama bottoms, Birkenstocks with white tube socks, and a ragged straw hat from Tijuana with a button that says “I ate the worm!”, and nobody cares; they’re just glad to share his company on such a happy occasion. Progress is sometimes slow, but it all seems to be coming up roses. > [@](#): > > I am free to consider you not a gentleman Which hurts me not at all. Indeed, you have drawn a negative conclusion regarding my character based solely on the fact that I have stated the opinion that the concept of a “gentleman” and its remaining superficial trappings is best left in the dustbin of cultural history. (And I don’t think I have actualy stated what I think anyone _should_ wear or what I _would_ wear in any particular circumstance.) That says a lot more about you than it does me. > [@](#): > > but because you insist on being stridently offensive about a simple choice. Who’s being stridently offensive? I’m not the one insisting that the world comport with my preferences. > [@](#): > > Well, bless your little proletariat heart. … Oh, sweetie. You are obviously so young that you just don’t know yet. I must congratulate you. It seems you have found a way of getting around the bar on personal insults in this forum. And either I’m not as young as you seem to think or you’re a lot older than I assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/85 "2008-08-26T14:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] This sentence doesn’t actually make any sense to me. But in point of fact, I’m not exercised about anything. So far as I can tell, things are going my way: - 44 B.C.E.: Gaius Julius Caesar is stabbed for aspiring to kingship. - 1789/93: The Bastille is stormed and Marie Antoinette gets the chop. - 1961: John F. Kennedy puts aside his tophat to deliver his inaugural address. - 1999: Hereditary peers are ejected from the House of Lords. - 2008: Jeff Dunman attends his sister’s wedding wearing a Metallica T-shirt, pajama bottoms, Birkenstocks with white tube socks, and a ragged straw hat from Tijuana with a button that says “I ate the worm!”, and nobody cares; they’re just glad to share his company on such a happy occasion. [/QUOTE] I don’t really care about this argument but the quote above is so awesome it hurts. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/86 "2008-08-26T15:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] …Who’s being stridently offensive? I’m not the one insisting that the world comport with my preferences. … [/QUOTE] Actually, I think you are. If you are invited to a “dressy” event, such as a company awards banquet, a wedding, a cotillion, whatever, it sounds as if you should be able to wear jeans and a t-shirt if you prefer to, and to hell with what others expect. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/87 "2008-08-26T15:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I don’t really care about this argument but the quote above is so awesome it hurts. 😃 [/QUOTE] and wrong too! [Kennedy and hats.](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/jfkhat.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813/88 "2008-08-26T15:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] it sounds as if you should be able to wear jeans and a t-shirt if you prefer to, and to hell with what others expect. [/QUOTE] No, I am simply celebrating the _observation_ that more and more people do not feel obligated to follow such conventions and more and more of their fellow event-attenders do not care whether there are people present who choose not to comport with such superficialities. Expectations are changing. That’s a societal change and it’s not any claim of special privilege on my part. [QUOTE=BMalion] and wrong too! [Kennedy and hats.](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/jfkhat.asp) [/QUOTE] Read carefully what I wrote and then look at the third photograph displayed in the Snopes article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-tuxedo-fading-from-common-use/460813.md?page=4)