# Is the UAW going to help the Big Three in their time of need? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873 "2008-11-21T17:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![luvrbcs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@luvrbcs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvrbcs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/1 "2008-11-21T17:57:26Z")
Is the UAW going to help the Big Three with this crisis, maybe with a restructured contract or something? Or, are they going to sit back and ride the tide. I would think they would want to help, since it is their jobs on the line. My thoughts are they think the government will bail them out and they can continue sitting back and reaping in the dough. As an aside, I am not a union fan, I feel they were very useful in the beginning when they were needed, but now they are leeches. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/2 "2008-11-21T18:28:26Z")
A union is nothing more than an association of indivduals who are each trying to make a living. Are they all leeches? They aren’t taking anything from _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/3 "2008-11-21T18:32:54Z")
Well they helped us into the toilet. I’m sure they’ll do the right thing and flush. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/4 "2008-11-21T18:37:50Z")
Oh, the evil unions, victimizing the poor car makers. How dare they negotiate contracts! They should take what is given them, and be grateful to work for such generous humaitarians! ---
**Author:** ![luvrbcs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@luvrbcs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvrbcs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/5 "2008-11-21T18:38:34Z")
Sorry, I meant the union management. And yes, I consider them leeches. > [@acsenray](#): > > A union is nothing more than an association of indivduals who are each trying to make a living. Are they all leeches? They aren’t taking anything from _you_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/6 "2008-11-21T19:20:58Z")
Then you should reject all benefits that you currently get from unions: weekends, eight hour days, overtime, paid vacation and sick leave, all health and retirement benefits, reimbursement for your expenses, the right not to have to be solicited for politics when at work, etc. These things are being eroded as unions get weaker. In a free market environment, you will be sliding toward being a wage slave. ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/7 "2008-11-21T19:45:25Z")
Wow, that has to be some kind of a record for turning a GQ into a GD union vs. non-union argument. I too am not a big union fan, and like you, I feel like there is enough legislation on the books that labor forces are not generally abused. But that’s my opinion, and I think that the fact is that yes, I think any kind of bailout if one ever occurs will require a revision to the union contracts. Better they get 75% of something than 100% of nothing, which is where they are headed. My wife and I often argue the logic of whether high school grads who go straight into factory auto work are entitled to eventually make a wage that allows them the finer things in life along with escalations that can quickly put them well ahead of college educated counterparts in other technical and non-unionized factory settings. Obviously people have been siding with her for quite a while, and these folks have been making a high wage and getting great benefits, which is all fine and dandy, but that cost has to be built into the cars. My understanding is that the unions have also been a major factor in the delay in factory automation at the Big 3, which reduces quality and increases costs. So where was this eventually going to end up for them? While I do think that it’s unrealistic to expect these autoworkers to take a huge pay cut to stay employed, I do think they need to at least have pay freezes and get some of the expensive people out of the system through early retirement programs as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/8 "2008-11-21T20:06:46Z")
> [@Yarster](#): > > Wow, that has to be some kind of a record for turning a GQ into a GD union vs. non-union argument. Yeah, it took four lines into the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/9 "2008-11-21T20:12:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, it took four lines into the OP. Yes – “they can continue sitting back and reaping in the dough” and “now they are leeches” automatically take the OP right out of GQ before the question is answered. ---
**Author:** ![luvrbcs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@luvrbcs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvrbcs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/10 "2008-11-21T20:14:57Z")
Yeah, I really wasn’t looking for a debate on the merits of a union, I was just wondering if they have agreed to help out. If any of the big three go under or even file for bankrupcy, there will probably be a lot of jobs lost. If I was going to lose my job because my company was going to go under, I would want to help my company any way I can to keep working. Do you think the UAW has the same mentality? Please, no more debates on the good or bad of a union, I really don’t care and that wasn’t the intent of my original post. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/11 "2008-11-21T20:22:23Z")
> [@Yarster](#): > > Wow, that has to be some kind of a record for turning a GQ into a GD union vs. non-union argument. Well, when the OP refers to unions as “leeches”, it probably belonged in GD rather than GQ in the first place. Especially as there isn’t any really answerable question here. How can anyone predict the future on this? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/12 "2008-11-21T20:22:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, it took four lines into the OP. The only union I have a problem with is the UAW. I have purchased 5 new vehicles from Chrysler. 2 of them I got right off of the transport, which came from the rail yard, both of which had interior finish issues. My best guess is because the sorry ass mother fucker that signed off on them didn’t give a flying rats ass as to their condition. An anomaly? I don’t think so. Try to take pride in a product that you apologize constantly for. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/13 "2008-11-21T20:28:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Then you should reject all benefits that you currently get from unions: weekends, eight hour days, overtime, paid vacation and sick leave, all health and retirement benefits, reimbursement for your expenses, the right not to have to be solicited for politics when at work, etc. > > These things are being eroded as unions get weaker. In a free market environment, you will be sliding toward being a wage slave. I work 11 hours a day. No overtime, no retirement. Expenses? I bring my own computer to work to get things done my company doesn’t pay for. What _the_ hell are you on about? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/14 "2008-11-21T20:30:50Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > I work 11 hours a day. No overtime, no retirement. Expenses? I bring my own computer to work to get things done my company doesn’t pay for. What _the_ hell are you on about? It sounds like you need a union 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/15 "2008-11-21T20:35:20Z")
> [@luvrbcs](#): > > Do you think the UAW has the same mentality? > > Please, no more debates on the good or bad of a union, I really don’t care and that wasn’t the intent of my original post. You should read up on the 2007 UAW/GM contract. It contained several notable concessions by the UAW. But really, you posted a valid question in a gratuitously slanted way, so I’m not really inclined to put work in to summarize the deal when it isn’t clear you’re actually interested in a factual answer. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/16 "2008-11-21T20:40:19Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > It sounds like you need a union 🙂 Yeah, too late to edit. Such is life. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/17 "2008-11-21T20:59:08Z")
I doubt that any factual answer is available for to the OP, and in any case the final sentence pretty much guarantees that this won’t stay in GQ: > [@luvrbcs](#): > > As an aside, I am not a union fan, I feel they were very useful in the beginning when they were needed, but now they are leeches. Off to GD. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/18 "2008-11-21T21:04:22Z")
> [@luvrbcs](#): > > Is the UAW going to help the Big Three with this crisis, maybe with a restructured contract or something? [Yes](http://www.freep.com/article/20081120/BUSINESS01/311200023) > [@Detroit Free Press](#): > > The UAW is negotiating the possible elimination of its controversial jobs bank and is considering other concessions to help Detroit’s automakers win low-cost loans from Congress, people familiar with negotiations said late Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/19 "2008-11-21T21:24:23Z")
Recognizing that a Union may need to accept cutbacks in order to insure that it doesn’t stifle it’s own industry is hardly the same as hating Unions. Get a grip. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![luvrbcs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@luvrbcs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvrbcs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873/20 "2008-11-21T21:28:46Z")
Yeah, your right, I just lost interest. I posted a question wondering if the UAW would help out the Big Three. It’s their butts on the line. I also stated my opinion/feelings on unions, but I can’t see why that means I still don’t want a factual answer. I also don’t like the color black on cars, it’s too hard to keep clean, but I still listen and nod sympathetically to my friends that have black cars when they complain about how hard it is to keep clean. Oh well, I guess we will find out in a month or two anyways. > [@Ravenman](#): > > You should read up on the 2007 UAW/GM contract. It contained several notable concessions by the UAW. > > But really, you posted a valid question in a gratuitously slanted way, so I’m not really inclined to put work in to summarize the deal when it isn’t clear you’re actually interested in a factual answer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-uaw-going-to-help-the-big-three-in-their-time-of-need/473873.md?page=2)