# Is the United Methodist Church moving towards acceptance of Homosexuals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748 "2002-08-20T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/101 "2002-08-27T18:25:31Z")
It’s actually the name of a song on the Beavis and Butthead Do America soundtrack-for reals. Another thing-about it not being “natural”…whether it is or it isn’t-what does THAT have to do with anything? Since when does natural automatically equal good? Snake venom, poison ivy, and earthquakes are natural. And likewise, we have things that aren’t found in nature that are good. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/102 "2002-08-27T18:45:14Z")
Congratulations to you all - you’ve shouted down a fundamentalist. Thru a combination of hysteria, and a level of personal abuse that should never have been allowed outside the Pit, you have managed to drown out the voice of one who had the temerity to express another opinion. How proud you must be! And how did you achieve this major triumph? By telling her to “shut your female pie hole”, that she is “hateful”, a “bigot”, that she is going to hell, by calling her a "fringe pseudo-christian denying the humanity of " gays, that she has “a feeble mind”, that her opinions are worthless, “you clearly have no intellect or common sense”, and of being complicit in the murder of Mathew Shepard. And gay-bashers are the intolerant ones, who have the wrong interpretation of Scripture. As opposed to all you warm, accepting, forgiving Christians, bathed in the light of God’s love for all. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/103 "2002-08-27T19:01:53Z")
Your very valid concerns were recently addressed by **Gaudere** , however please do not confuse one poster with the rest of the participants in this thread. Mars the warm, accepting, forgiving atheist 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/104 "2002-08-27T19:03:44Z")
That’s a load of crap, **Shodan**. There’s no martyr in this thread. We’ve addressed the one offender (he even got an Official Warning) and yet **His4ever** has still neglected to respond to the numerous, rational questions we asked of her, except to simply restate her original opinion. We didn’t shout her down. She expressed her opinion, and when presented with obvious contradictions in her statements, she chose the cop out of saying she couldn’t defend her position, but she still knows she’s right. She is the one who has the unexamined beliefs and couldn’t defend them. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/105 "2002-08-27T20:07:42Z")
\*\*God just wants for women to be women and men to be men. \*\* So, praytell, any man that may look a bit too “pretty” or any women that looks a little too “butch” is going against God, whether or not it is any fault of their own? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/106 "2002-08-27T20:22:06Z")
SHODAN – > [@](#): > > And how did you achieve this major triumph? By telling her to “shut your female pie hole” I did **NOT** tell her that. I said that is what I **would** tell her, if I believed as she believes, which I do **not**. You may have some personal reason to want to think that I and some others have been disrespectful and attacking of her in this thread, but we very clearly have not. Please read for comprehension, SHODAN. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/107 "2002-08-27T21:20:47Z")
So we have to take the abuse of fundamentalists? Someone who hasn’t considered their religion wants to say that _I_ am unnatural, an abomination- and those who point out how hateful the childish cult of Jack T. Chick (which has absolutely _nothing_ to do with christianity) is are the ones in the wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/108 "2002-08-27T22:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **I won’t change my mind on this.** I’ve tried to share my views nicely. I’m not the only one who holds these views. I’ve read the Scriptures over and over on this issue and sorry, I just can’t see it your way. > [sub](emphasis added by me)[/sub] It’s this bit alone that worries me; not that you hold a different opinion, not that this opinion is considered wrong or dangerous by some, but that you have shut your ears and mind. In all seriousness I would like to ask; has God spoken to you personally in confirmation of your view of scripture? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/109 "2002-08-27T23:35:11Z")
Congratulations, **his4ever** , you’ve just managed to remind this devout Christian of something which would make her renounce her faith. If the God I worship would condemn a person who has shown kindness and mercy, helped the poor, simply because he happens to be a homosexual, while granting admission to His presence in heaven to someone who showed cruelty, ignored those in trouble, and concentrated on his own well being (this assumes both have professed Jesus as their Saviours), then I will stand before the cross in any church you care to name, and tell God that I cannot worship a Deity who would proclaim love yet countenance cruelty. Would anyone choose a life where an estranged family member has more rights to be at their side in the hospital than someone they have loved for years? Would anyone choose a life where mention of one’s significant other could lead to them being accused of “flaunting their lifestyle”? A gay teenager is much more likely to commit suicide than a straight one, and synonyms for gay are commonly used as insults in school. Why would someone choose to be a target for abuse? The words, “Thou shalt love Thy neighbor as thyself” were spoken by Christ himself. Would you contradict your Saviour? Samaritans were considered unclean. No respectable Jew would speak to them, yet Christ made one the center of one of His parables. The woman at the well was probably going to the well at midday because she was so outcast (not to mention gentile) that she couldn’t even go to the well in the cool of the morning because of what the other women would say. She was the first person to whom Christ proclaimed himself Messiah. If another denomination is moving in the direction of accepting people as people, rather than condemning them on one aspect of their lives, in my book, this is a very good thing. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/110 "2002-08-28T00:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*SHODAN – > > I did **NOT** tell her that. I said that is what I **would** tell her, if I believed as she believes, which I do **not**. You may have some personal reason to want to think that I and some others have been disrespectful and attacking of her in this thread, but we very clearly have not. > > Please read for comprehension, SHODAN. \*\* Right, and if I believed as you do, I would tell you to shut _your_ piehole. But of course, I do not. There - read **that** for comprehension, JODI. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/111 "2002-08-28T03:11:43Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] And if I believed I was a moderator, I would ask for no more requests for shutting of pieholes from _anyone_ anymore in this thread. Oh wait–I _do_ believe I am a moderator! [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/112 "2002-08-28T03:15:28Z")
But I thought you were an Administrator? 😛 d&r ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/113 "2002-08-28T03:26:07Z")
I am both a Mod and an Admin at once, yet am still only one entity. Kind of like the whole Jesus/God thing.\* [sub]\*and people say we have ego issues. Psst.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/114 "2002-08-28T04:55:39Z")
SHODAN – > [@](#): > > Right, and if I believed as you do, I would tell you to shut your piehole. But of course, I do not. There - read that for comprehension, JODI. Well, let’s see – You don’t believe it, so you wouldn’t and do not say it. Based on that, I would not by implication state that you _did_ say it. Because if I _were_ to make that implication, I would be misrepresenting what you said and being intellectually dishonest. Seems clear enough to me. Which is not to say _you’ll_ understand it, though. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/115 "2002-08-28T05:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dreamer \* > \*\* > > I just want to make it clear that I have _ **never** _ discussed my view of homosexuality on these boards to anyone. I have gay friends whom I am very close with. Heck **musicguy** who is openly gay here on the SD is the drummer for my band and I love and respect him and we are very close friends. > > I just wanted to make that clear. \*\* Thanks **dreamer** , the feeling is mutual. **dreamer** is an example that someone can be a “fundamentalist” and yet I always know that she is there for me and that she genuinely cares about me. That goes for her husband as well, another devout Christian. Even though they may have issues with homosexuality in general, they figured out that perhaps treating people with love and respect is a more important aspect of their belief than being a judge of people different than them. I wish more people of faith would consider that option. And it’s nice to see a church re-examining where its priorities should be in this matter as well. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/116 "2002-08-28T05:09:27Z")
By the way, I know this is just a coincidence, but has anyone noticed the title of this page as it appears on the top of internet explorer? Maybe it is just my monitor resolution, but it reads: “Is the United Methodist Church moving towards acceptance of Homos” That has a slightly different ring to it, doesn’t it? Oh, the reaction that thread title would have received. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/117 "2002-08-28T05:13:49Z")
On Internet Explorer in Mac OS X it reads “Straight Dope Message Board - Is the United M…” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/118 "2002-08-28T08:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*_I am both a Mod and an Admin at once, yet am still only one entity. Kind of like the whole Jesus/God thing._ > \*\* Since there’s clearly an insurmountable logical problem with such duality, I must conclude that it is not possible for you to exist. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/119 "2002-08-28T12:35:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*SHODAN – > > Well, let’s see – You don’t believe it, so you wouldn’t and do not say it. Based on that, I would not by implication state that you _did_ say it. Because if I _were_ to make that implication, I would be misrepresenting what you said and being intellectually dishonest. > > Seems clear enough to me. Which is not to say _you’ll_ understand it, though. \*\* **Jodi** (and others) - I had a nasty, snarling reply all ready in response to this. I decided not to post it. If these kind of veiled insults are wrong, then they are wrong for me as well. I was, and am, bitterly angry and disappointed at the tenor of the debate in this thread. I was, and am, sorry that my anger led me to contribute to that tenor rather than to combat it. And I apologize, and ask forgiveness. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748/120 "2002-08-28T23:56:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > **It’s this bit alone that worries me; not that you hold a different opinion, not that this opinion is considered wrong or dangerous by some, but that you have shut your ears and mind.** Glad to see someone else is … alarmed by this? I don’t know quite what word to use. But the notion that someone is in GD and unwilling to accept that they might not be right just seems like so much of a waste of everyone’s time. This isn’t IMHO, where things are just tossed around sometimes a la “My favorie pillowcase color”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-methodist-church-moving-towards-acceptance-of-homosexuals/124748.md?page=7)