# Is the United Nations good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288 "2002-09-06T14:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/41 "2002-09-09T02:18:12Z")
Sorry, I was out all day, and it’s close to bed time. It could take several hours to find those cites. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/42 "2002-09-09T06:30:20Z")
\>\> However, other agencies of the UN could conceivably take anti-American positions that could be at least embarassing. Wouldn’t that be _awful_? The US embarrassed! It is also conceivable that the Federal Government develop a dislike for North Dakota and pass a resolution which would embarrass that state. Still, it seems the benefits outweigh the risk of that happening. The benefits of the UN also far outweigh the risks and the aspects in which it is not perfect. Any human institution is bound to be far from perfect but that does not mean it is useless. ---
**Author:** ![BamBam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BamBam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BamBam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/43 "2002-09-09T07:42:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*This muddle of uncomprehension refers to the action brought … > I find it rather hypocritical that posters such as yourself make such assertions, arguments from ignorance. \*\* Is it ironic that you find ignorant arguments and assertions hypocritical, and you come up with the word “uncomprehension”. It’s doubly ironic that I thought the word was “miscomprehension” and when looking it up to confirm my mastery of the English language, find that the word is in fact “incomprehension”. You learn something new every day, eh? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/44 "2002-09-09T14:44:28Z")
My dear newly arrived poster. One word, neologism. For those who know me, they will have grasped my sly meaning in my neologism _uncomprehension_, else for those who don’t they will simply post misplaced “corrections.” Should you need to confirm your mastery of English, don’t bother to attempt to correct me. Now, in re substance. Certainly our dear december (may I add the post by I am Sparticus in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134151&pagenumber=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134151&pagenumber=2) brilliantly encapsulates the problem with december’s attempts at debate.) has a point that during the flush years of the Arab oil boom, they were able to buy a goodly number of childishly silly anti-Israeli General Assembly ‘resolutions’ and findings. Empty posturing in large part, with a few exceptions. Understandably Israel has been less than fond of the UN – although I think that (a) the substantive reasons for such are either passing or have passed (b) is also in part tied to very legitimate critiques emanating from a variety of quarters, including the UN, in re Israeli policy in re the Occupied Territories. As part of a nice little propaganda game, folks like december try to mix the two issues together. In any case, the UN is about as good a world talking shop as one can expect in this world. The bureaucracy certainly could use some further paring or tightening up – but Kofi has led an admirable set of reforms and still been spat on (metaphorically) so until the US ponies up owed back dues, I suspect further reform is not in the making. It’s not a world government, it’s a tool for resolution of conflicts between theoretically equal sovereign entities. The starry eyed on the Left and the wild-eyed on the Right might do well to recall this. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BamBam \* > \*\* > > Is it ironic that you find ignorant arguments and assertions hypocritical, and you come up with the word “uncomprehension”. > > It’s doubly ironic that I thought the word was “miscomprehension” and when looking it up to confirm my mastery of the English language, find that the word is in fact “incomprehension”. > > You learn something new every day, eh? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/45 "2002-09-09T15:56:08Z")
**Collounsbury** and **sailor** : Actually, what I was referring to was (after doing a little of the research I should have done beforehand, given that my memory was adversely affected by sleeplessness, but didn’t have time on account of needing to run) the attempts by the EU to enact “tax harmonization” using methods such as the “savings tax directive”, among others. No, there was no actual lawsuit involved, I probably got these tax-raising efforts mixed up with the WTO lawsuit you two so kindly mentioned. My bad. However, these do amount to efforts to effectively raise taxes in America by a variety of means, as a result of the EU losing investors to the veritable tax haven that is the US. Regardless, this thread is about the UN, not the EU, so this is wildly off-topic. I would also like to mention that I find it unfortunate that even here, on what is supposed to be a forum for mature and thoughtful discourse, peopel feel compelled to act with arrogance and condescension. So I got a fact wrong. Hell, even if I was so ridiculously off-base as to be laughable, does that really warrant such rudeness? Come on, we’re all adults here. Let’s act with maturity here, shall we? Now, with regards to my second statement, about how the UN praises Zimbabwe, Cuba, and China with regards to their human rights accomplishments, while criticizing the US: Cuba: [http://www.lacnet.org/suntimes/000416/inside.html](http://www.lacnet.org/suntimes/000416/inside.html) > [@](#): > > Annan said that Cuba’s achievements in health, education and literacy were all the more significant given the size of its domestic product per capita and the suffering the country has undergone since the US imposed economic embargo of July 1963. > > As the human development index of the UN makes clear year after year, he said, “Cuba should be the envy of many other nations ostensibly far richer.” [http://www.getusout.org/terrorism/](http://www.getusout.org/terrorism/) > [@](#): > > During an April 2000 summit in Havana, Annan insisted that Castro’s regime has “set an example we can all learn from.” China: [http://www.un.org/ga/president/55/speech/chinawomen.htm](http://www.un.org/ga/president/55/speech/chinawomen.htm) > [@](#): > > I should like to congratulate the women of [China] and its government for having been very active in enhancing the status of women. China is a party to the Convention of All Forms of Discrimination against Women since 1980 and has made achievements in many areas of gender equality. (I notice that the speaker here kinda forgot to mention the whole forced abortion and sterlization thing. I guess it’s a small oversight.) The Mugabe bit has already been touched upon, so I won’t go into that. Meanwhile, the US gets kicked off the Human Rights Commission (to be headed by Libya, of all places), and is beat up for not having socialized medicine and for not doing enough to offer abortions. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/46 "2002-09-09T16:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > **Collounsbury** and **sailor** : > Actually, what I was referring to was (after doing a little of the research I should have done beforehand, given that my memory was adversely affected by sleeplessness, but didn’t have time on account of needing to run) the attempts by the EU to enact “tax harmonization” using methods such as the “savings tax directive”, among others. No, there was no actual lawsuit involved, I probably got these tax-raising efforts mixed up with the WTO lawsuit you two so kindly mentioned. My bad. In other words, you did not get a singel fact right, and your entire intervention was based on a gross misunderstanding of the underlying issues, both in re EU and in re UN. > [@](#): > > However, these do amount to efforts to effectively raise taxes in America by a variety of means, as a result of the EU losing investors to the veritable tax haven that is the US. Regardless, this thread is about the UN, not the EU, so this is wildly off-topic. Also wildly factually incorrect. You may want to take a look at recent FI flows, net. > [@](#): > > I would also like to mention that I find it unfortunate that even here, on what is supposed to be a forum for mature and thoughtful discourse, peopel feel compelled to act with arrogance and condescension. So I got a fact wrong. Hell, even if I was so ridiculously off-base as to be laughable, does that really warrant such rudeness? Come on, we’re all adults here. Let’s act with maturity here, shall we? Maturity, including whinging on? Bother. As to the rest, the US got voted off the UNHRC because of the present administration’s diplomatic incompetance such that we have managed to alienate our closest and longest standing allies to the point they refrained from supporting our bid. Rising irritation with clumsy, poorly-thought out simpleminded know-nothing unilateralism has cumulative consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/47 "2002-09-09T16:37:31Z")
If you have time to participate in a debate that’s “a bit silly”, then you have time to look up cites. > [@](#): > > …a statement made with no evidence at all that anyone who imagined that the UN could develop an anti-American bias was obviously paranoid. I suppose I ought to have simply demanded evidence for that POV and let it go at that. An opinion does not need to be backed up with evidence. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/48 "2002-09-09T17:29:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > If you have time to participate in a debate that’s “a bit silly”, then you have time to look up cites. You’re harsh. I’m glad you’re not my boss. If you were my boss, you might not appreciate my posting to th SD at work.😉 > [@](#): > > An opinion does not need to be backed up with evidence. \*\* Hmm? ISTM that the claim that anyone who imagined that the UN could develop an anti-American bias was obviously paranoid is just a colorful way of saying that it’s unlikely that the UN could develop such a bias. Surely an opinion like this has some basis. **DDG** , we have discussed Ireael and the United Nations a great deal on this message board. Here’s a list of threads that I was involved in from the last 12 months that touch on the subject: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=186417&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=186417&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&pagenumber=1) In general the UN has criticized Israeli actions over and over again for any number of alleged infractions, including a non-existent massacre in Jenin and damage to property. However, they most often ignored mass murder by Palestinians. An instance where the UN actually had evidence of Palestinain misdeeds and _hid_ it is discussed here. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=186417&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=186417&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending&pagenumber=1) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/49 "2002-09-09T17:54:46Z")
I don’t want to hear about your workplace situation. I don’t want to hear about your SDMB resume. I don’t want to hear how many times we’ve discussed Israel and the UN on the boards. I don’t want to hear a rehash of supposed anti-Israel sentiment at the UN. I don’t want to hear a rehash of supposed pro-Palestinian sentiment at the UN. I don’t want to hear other people’s opinions of what goes on at the UN, at all. I don’t want to hear you continue to attempt to sidetrack the discussion into whether or not somebody somewhere is paranoid. What I want is to see a list of the “many” anti-Israel UN resolutions that your supposed “Arab/Muslim UN clique” forced through. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/50 "2002-09-09T18:22:47Z")
You’ve been here in GD all morning. 09-09-2002 09:35 AM [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433467#post2433467](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433467#post2433467) 09-09-2002 11:23 AM [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433744#post2433744](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433744#post2433744) 09-09-2002 11:48 AM [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433805#post2433805](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433805#post2433805) 09-09-2002 12:29 PM [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433879#post2433879](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433879#post2433879) 09-09-2002 12:59 PM [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433926#post2433926](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2433926#post2433926) Evidently you have time to look up sports statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/51 "2002-09-09T18:28:47Z")
I don’t say this often, but, **DDG** , well done. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/52 "2002-09-09T18:33:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\* What I want is to see a list of the “many” anti-Israel UN resolutions that your supposed “Arab/Muslim UN clique” forced through. \*\* This [site](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/unantisem.html) lists a number of such resolutions with links. This site names various anti-Israel actions taken by various UN agencies. It begins > [@](#): > > Historically Arab members of the UN have used the General Assembly (GA) as a forum for isolating and chastising Israel. "…the United Nations has long been a forum for political attacks against Israel … " > > With support from third-world nations, the Non-Aligned group and others, the Arab states have had little difficulty passing harsh anti-Israel resolutions through the GA. Even today, the strength of these forces in the world body allows them to continue rebuking Israel. This is demonstrated each year at the opening session of the GA when the Arab members challenge the credentials of the Israeli delegation. > > For decades, the Security Council has also participated in singling out Israel by passing one-sided resolutions charging Israel with sole responsibility for human rights violations, violence and deportations. On the other hand, Palestinian and other Arab violations and involvement with such incidents are rarely criticized, or even noted by the Council. This [site](http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_anti_israel_bias.php) has some links and it says > [@](#): > > The UN General Assembly is still dominated by blocks of third-world countries that are anti-American and anti-Israel. The numerical strength of the Arab states and the Non-Aligned Movement in the General Assembly created the long series of offensive, anti-Israel, anti-American and anti-Western resolutions, capped by the infamous 1975 “Zionism equals racism” Resolution 3379. Except for Resolution 3379 itself, repealed in 1991, these black marks of injustice remain on the General Assembly’s record. However, the above site claims to have seen anti-American actions by the UN, so it must be paranoid. 😉 This [site](http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/news_un.html) should be close to what you’re looking for, since it has a list of anti-Isrtaeli actions with a discussion of each. If you take the time to read each of the links here, I think you’ll be educated about how Israel has been treated by the UN. Incidentally, note how long the list is, even though it only goes back to the beginning of year 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/53 "2002-09-09T20:30:40Z")
Three links are given, only one of which is useful. > [@](#): > > This site { [http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/news\_un.html](http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/news_un.html) } should be close to what you’re looking for. Not only is it not “close to what I’m looking for”, but I already told you on Page 1 that their glurge-ridden relentlessly pro-Israel op-ed website is useless for the purposes of factual debate. If you think there are diamonds of relevant facts hidden in amongst the dungheaps, go and find them for me. > [@](#): > > If you take the time to read each of the links here, I think you’ll be educated about how Israel has been treated by the UN. If I took the time to read each of the links there, I would not be my parents’ daughter, who taught their little girl to recognize and eschew codswallop. Re this link [http://www.palestinefacts.org/](http://www.palestinefacts.org/) I also already told you, on Page 1, that the “Palestine Facts” website has no “facts” dealing with UN resolutions but only “opinion”, and is therefore useless for the purposes of factual debate on the subject of UN resolutions. Your third link brings us back to Morris Abram’s column on anti-Semitism in the UN. However, he does happen to have a list of links to some UN resolutions. [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/gatoc.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/gatoc.html) I have now worked my way through the last 23 of these resolutions, starting in the year 2001 and going backwards in time. December 2000 seems to be when things in the Mideast last heated up to a degree that required lots and lots of UN resolutions concerning Palestine. And indeed, I do see a definite pattern, although it’s not the pattern of the Arab/Muslim clique pushing anti-Israel resolutions through that you claim exists. No, I see a pattern of Israel acting bad, and having the UN call them on it, and the Palestinians having a thoroughly wretched time of it, and the UN trying to help, by doing things like asking Israel to get out of the way while they start a university, and to stop confiscating Palestinians’ property. [list=1] [li]Please demonstrate which of the UN resolutions in Morris Abram’s link that censure or otherwise remonstrate with Israel delivered a censure or remonstrance that was not fully deserved. [/li] [li]Please demonstrate which of the UN resolutions in Morris Abram’s link that endeavor to assist the Palestinians delivered an assistance that was not fully deserved.[/li] [li]And please demonstrate exactly how an Arab/Muslim clique forced the passage of these resolutions.[/li][/list=1] Here is the Voting Record for Resolution 55-129, the one that called on Israel to cooperate with the founding of the University of Jerusalem. [http://www.un.org/russian/documen/gadocs/55sess/vote55-129.htm](http://www.un.org/russian/documen/gadocs/55sess/vote55-129.htm) > [@](#): > > Yeas: 156 > Nays: 2 > Abstentions: 2 > Non-voting: 29 > Total voting membership: 189 Wow, that’s some Arab/Muslim clique! They managed to get practically everybody in the whole wide world to vote with them, except for the United States and Israel, who voted “no”, and 31 others who didn’t vote or abstained. Hey, I want them representing Illinois on Capitol Hill… Consider the possibility that members like Belize and Denmark thought that Israel was out of line, and voted “yea” out of conscience, not because the Arabs and Muslims told them to. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/54 "2002-09-09T21:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* And indeed, I do see a definite pattern, although it’s not the pattern of the Arab/Muslim clique pushing anti-Israel resolutions through that you claim exists. No, I see a pattern of Israel acting bad, and having the UN call them on it, and the Palestinians having a thoroughly wretched time of it, and the UN trying to help, by doing things like asking Israel to get out of the way while they start a university, and to stop confiscating Palestinians’ property. Well, that’s the essence of our disagreement. If you think Israel’s conduct was far worse than Palistinian conduct, then it makes sense for there to have been so many more anti-Isralel resolutions. (That still wouldn’t explain why there were many more resolutions against Israel than against Sudan or Robert Mugabe’s government. I’m sure you would agree that the wrongs done in Zimbabwe and Sudan far, far exceed Israel’s wrongs. But set that aside for now.) Everyone knows that the Palestinians acted very badly indeed during this period. We’ve been through this so many times, but some of the bad things Palestinians did included[ul][_]Starting the intifada as a response to a peace offer including a Palestinain state.[_]Each individual suicide bombing. (How many were there; I’ve lost count.)[_]Various murders of settler families, including women and children.[_]Palestinian gunman holing up inside a church and taking the priests hostage, in violation of the Geneva Accords.Al Aksa torturing and killing their own citizens, without any sort of trial.[/ul]All these things were reported in the news. Each looks comparably serious to, or more serious than, the worst of Israel’s misdeeds. Yet, almost none of them were criticized by any UN resolution. That’s proof of UN bias. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/55 "2002-09-09T23:13:47Z")
You do realize – and the name “United Nations” should be a big clue – that the Palestinians are not a nation, right? And as such, they do not have membership status in the United Nations, and are therefore not in a position to be the subject of resolutions concerning UN members, right? The resolutions concerning Israel – rightly or wrongly – call upon Israel to do or to refrain from doing certain things. The UN claims the authority to do this because Israel is a member state. The Palestinians are not a member state; they are a permanent observer on a par with the EU, the ICRC, the Organization of African Unity and other intergovernmental or nongovernmental organizations. No resolution that the UN could pass could be binding on them. That’s why nations like Syria and the Saudis act as their mouthpieces in the GA. You can argue that there would be an important symbolic nature to such resolutions, but you’d be hoist on your own petard, _vis a vis_ your “liberals are trying” thread – you’ve already stated in public view that empty, symbolic gestures are a bad thing when it comes to governments and other civic institutions. ---
**Author:** ![BamBam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BamBam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BamBam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/56 "2002-09-09T23:31:56Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* \*\*One word, neologism. For those who know me, they will have grasped my sly meaning in my neologism _uncomprehension_, else for those who don’t they will simply post misplaced “corrections.” Should you need to confirm your mastery of English, don’t bother to attempt to correct me. I found the following entry for neologism on [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): ne·ol·o·gism Pronunciation Key (n-l-jzm) n. A new word, expression, or usage. The creation or use of new words or senses. _Psychology_. a. The invention of new words regarded as a symptom of certain psychotic disorders, such as schizophrenia. b. A word so invented. _Theology_. A new doctrine or a new interpretation of scripture. I’m trying to figure out if your “neologism” comes under _Psychology_ **a** or **b** , or perhaps you are such a God of Linguistics that the _Theology_ entry is more appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![BamBam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BamBam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BamBam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/57 "2002-09-09T23:35:57Z")
I stuffed that up, Collounsbury’s quote ends with “… don’t bother to attempt to correct me.” ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/58 "2002-09-09T23:37:47Z")
**pl** , I have two disageements with your point. **Theoretical disagreement:** since the UN gives the Palestinians large amounts of money, one might think they had a particular obligfation to cirticize atrciticies committed by the Palestinians. \*\*Practical disagreement:;/b] I’m fairly certain that there _have_ been resolutions criticizing the Palestinians, despite their non-nation status. Within the last month or so, the US announced that they would veto any one-sided Security Council resolution – i.e., a resolution that ciriticized Israel but ignored Palestinian misdeeds. This announced policy evidently contemplates the possitility of UN resolutions criticizing the Palestinians. You are right to raise the question of how important the UN bias has been. **Collounsbury** made a similar point. I don’t know the answer. I think they hurt the Palestinians as well as Israel, to some degree by raising unrealistic hopes that a violent intifada can succeed. But, I’m not sure. I do feel certain that these resolutions have harmed the United Nations, by reducing its moral standing. Israel can survive by force of arms, but if the UN’s moral leadership is dissipated, they are fatally weakened. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/59 "2002-09-10T13:20:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sure you would agree that the wrongs done in Zimbabwe and Sudan far, far exceed Israel’s wrongs. This is not the place to debate who’s worse, Arafat or Sharon or Mugabe. This is the place to debate whether there is an Arab/Muslim clique controlling the UN by forcing the passage of many anti-Israel resolutions. > [@](#): > > some of the bad things Palestinians did included No. “Some of the bad things some Palestinians did included…” I don’t want to hear Hamas’ or Al Aksa’s resume. I want to hear you either prove that there’s an Arab/Muslim clique controlling the UN and forcing the passage of many anti-Israeli resolutions, or retract the statement. > [@](#): > > Yet, almost none of them were criticized by any UN resolution. “Almost none of them”? Okay, which Palestinian actions were criticized by a UN resolution? I should think you would have this information at least at your very fingertips. > [@](#): > > If you think Israel’s conduct was far worse than Palistinian conduct, then it makes sense for there to have been so many more anti-Isralel resolutions. What I think doesn’t signify here. What signifies here is what the members of the UN think, and apparently what the members of the UN think is that Israel’s conduct has been far worse than the Palestinians’ conduct, hence the passage of more resolutions censuring Israel than resolutions censuring the Palestinians. The question before us is, did an Arab/Muslim clique force members like Belize and Denmark to vote that way, or did they vote that way because they thought Israel’s conduct was bad enough to merit the censure? Not only have you failed to prove your assertion about an Arab/Muslim clique at the UN, but you were also asked to demonstrate which UN resolutions you find unfairly censuring of Israel, and which UN resolutions you find unfairly favorable to the Palestinians. You have not done so. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288/60 "2002-09-10T13:50:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > This is not the place to debate who’s worse, Arafat or Sharon or Mugabe. This is the place to debate whether there is an Arab/Muslim clique controlling the UN by forcing the passage of many anti-Israel resolutions. “Many” is a relative term. The way to determine whether the number of anti-Israel resolutions constitutes “many” is to look at the number passed against other miscreants. > [@](#): > > No. “Some of the bad things some Palestinians did included…” I don’t want to hear Hamas’ or Al Aksa’s resume. These are formal Palestinian organizations. Al Aksa, in particular, is associated with Arafat. I’m not getting your point. > [@](#): > > I want to hear you either prove that there’s an Arab/Muslim clique controlling the UN and forcing the passage of many anti-Israeli resolutions, or retract the statement. You’ll recall that I quoted > [@](#): > > Historically Arab members of the UN have used the General Assembly (GA) as a forum for isolating and chastising Israel. "…the United Nations has long been a forum for political attacks against Israel … " > > With support from third-world nations, the Non-Aligned group and others, the Arab states have had little difficulty passing harsh anti-Israel resolutions through the GA. Even today, the strength of these forces in the world body allows them to continue rebuking Israel. I guess you’re arguing that this quote is merely someone’s characterization, and you’d rather have an entire analysis. > [@](#): > > “Almost none of them”? Okay, which Palestinian actions were criticized by a UN resolution? I should think you would have this information at least at your very fingertips. Well, there was one within the last year where there was ciritcism of suicide bombings as well as criticism of Israel. I looked for it a bit, but haven’t found it. > [@](#): > > What I think doesn’t signify here. What signifies here is what the members of the UN think, and apparently what the members of the UN think is that Israel’s conduct has been far worse than the Palestinians’ conduct, hence the passage of more resolutions censuring Israel than resolutions censuring the Palestinians. This is circular reasoning. What you and I think is the key to forming a judgement about whether these UN resolutions are fair or biased. One might as well argue that the KKK isn’t unbiased because they think they’re doing the right thing. > [@](#): > > Not only have you failed to prove your assertion about an Arab/Muslim clique at the UN, but you were also asked to demonstrate which UN resolutions you find unfairly censuring of Israel, and which UN resolutions you find unfairly favorable to the Palestinians. You have not done so. The quote aove describes an Arab/3rd world clique. I admist that I did not find evidence of an Arab/Muslim clique. The UN has taken so many unfair actions, the cannot be summarized in a single post. My earlier cite included pages and pages just to cover the last 2 years. So, lets start one at time. In 1975 the UN passed a resolution equating Zionism with racism. I maintain that this was unfair and showed anti-Israel bias. Do you agree? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-nations-good/127288.md?page=4)