# Is the United States "liberal" or "conservative"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994 "2003-11-08T00:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/81 "2003-11-11T12:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The left itself has done a perfectly good job of that. Well, OK, but the question of which side _caused_ this situation is by the by. The simple fact, which I find quite amazing, is that somehow “elitism” has come to be demonstrated by _how one speaks_ rather than _eg_ to what extent the ultra-rich minority is favoured. The [article](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1077949,00.html) I mentioned puts it well: _Cultural_ elitism has become the deciding factor, which one must avoid at all costs, while _economic_ elitism is tolerated, even condoned, by the electorate. So, for George to heap massive rewards on the nations richest 1% is cheered for because he speaks like an everyday Texan (even though his background is utterly privileged), while a leftist who proposes mimium wage increases or draws attention to the plight of the poor _in verbose and articulate English_ pushes the electorate away. I have no dog in this fight - I am merely a Brit providing an outside perspective. And what the US electorate has accepted is somewhat surprising from this side if the pond. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/82 "2003-11-11T15:13:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > I would like to see a cite showing the number of people who want ban guns compared to the number of people who want to ban abortion. And a comparison of the Constitutional language supporting either one. Huh? What’s constitutional language have to do with anything? The constitution doesn’t say anything about abortion, IIRC. I’m not going to get a cite on the number of poeple who want bans on abortion vs bans on guns either. This isn’t relevant to anything that I posted. Lets just look at the last democrat president. Bill Clinton was very vocally anti-gun. [cite for a Clinton quote](http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002pjw): > [@](#): > > On the March 2 Today, in an effort to advance his gun control legislation on Capitol Hill, Bill Clinton blamed the NRA for gun- related deaths: “ **All I can tell you is we have a higher percentage of people in jail than all the other advanced countries, and they have a lower gun death rate. Why is that? That’s because they don’t have an NRA in their country** and they take sensible steps to protect children and society as a whole from people having guns who shouldn’t have them, doing things they shouldn’t do with them. You’ve got to keep guns away from criminals and children if you want to save society.” Clinton openly blamed gun deaths in the US on the NRA. Meanwhile, in order to get elected, Bush had to downplay abortion. He said he would not use abortion as a deciding factor on picking supreme court justices. Also, there are 30,000 gun control laws in the US right now. How many abortion control laws are there? Clearly, the right to bear arms is at greater risk than the right to choose. (I am pro-choice, BTW) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/83 "2003-11-11T18:41:11Z")
[Economist on the USA excepcional](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2172066) Just like to add this Economist article… a little bit drawn out. Check out the stats on the side… and within the text it says the US is conservative and religious. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/84 "2003-11-11T18:44:14Z")
Do notice that in one of them it clearly shows americans value freedom more than wellfare … then continue on to the other article… “argued that America’s unique origins had produced a distinctive value system and unusual politics.” Which I agree very much with… ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/85 "2003-11-11T18:47:57Z")
"To Europeans, religion is the strangest and most disturbing feature of American exceptionalism. They worry that fundamentalists are hijacking the country. They find it extraordinary that three times as many Americans believe in the virgin birth as in evolution. " ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/86 "2003-11-11T19:11:07Z")
God, who are they asking? All the religious people I know believe in evolution. Sheesh. And don’t churches in Europe get state subsidies, and isn’t there a giant statue of Christ over Rio, and crosses in every German and Italian classroom, and isn’t the head of state in the UK the head of the national church (!) and isn’t the Pope’s sovereign state in Europe, and…aw, forget it. Sentence first, trail afterwards. As for the first statement, give us the freedom and we’ll take care of our own welfare, thanks all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/87 "2003-11-11T19:12:25Z")
TRIAL afterwards. The Red Queen is gonna kill me. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/88 "2003-11-12T14:02:05Z")
The economist Survey on the USA is very interesting… though longish. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/89 "2003-11-12T14:27:48Z")
Elitism has no political dimension. The left has already been thrown off this high horse enough times, you’d think they would learn not to get back on. You are neither smarter nor richer. Soros comes to mind, from yesterday. A $1,500 a plate (of hot dogs) dinner is SOP for US politics. Nobody ever raised money like Clinton, until Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/90 "2003-11-12T14:32:11Z")
“nor richer”… Point being, your political affiliation – alone – tells me almost nothing about you from a useful information standpoint. There are plenty of rich “liberals” that act pretty “conservative” when push comes to shove. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/91 "2003-11-12T21:43:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*TRIAL afterwards. The Red Queen is gonna kill me. \*\* \ You mean the Queen of Hearts. \ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994/92 "2003-11-13T05:24:15Z")
No, no, that line (about the punishment, trial and crime in that order) comes from _Through the Looking Glass_ (Red Queen and White Queen), not _Alice in Wonderland_ (Queen of Hearts). Posted by **Beagle:** > [@](#): > > Elitism has no political dimension. Of course elitism has a political dimension. In fact, it is a political dimension in its own right. See the analysis in _Up from Conservatism,_ by Michael Lind. It’s not that elites are more likely to be liberal or conservative, it’s that each political position has its populist form and its elitist form, and there are significant differences between them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-liberal-or-conservative/211994.md?page=4)