# Is the United States of America a nation-state? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045 "2004-02-19T17:52:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SarahWitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@SarahWitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SarahWitch)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/61 "2017-11-25T08:51:43Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > But not with you. Yes, by forfeit. If you had a contrary opinion then it’s assumed you would have given it when you had the chance. ---
**Author:** ![SarahWitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@SarahWitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SarahWitch)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/62 "2017-11-25T09:18:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That theory of the Constitution was rejected in the seminal test case of Grant vs. Lee, opinion rendered at Appomatox Courthouse, Virginia, April 9, 1865. And there was never any good theoretical grounding for it in the first place. The Constitution begins with “We the People,” not “We the States.” The **whole** people are ultimately sovereign. That would be some trick; for no one nation-state _existed_ at the time, for such a singular “People” to speak as the sovereign rulers _thereof_. No, the Peoples of each state were each speaking for themselves _respectively,_ as the rulers of a \*separate \*nation-state. Nor did they join via the Constitution to become such a singular People or nation-state-- let alone throw away their democratic sovereignty to subject themselves to the final whims of a singular oligarchy; for the Constitution doesn’t expressly _say_ that, and no \*indirect \*language can be made to stick \*against \*a sovereign nation-state. Sorry, you’re stuck Tiger. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/63 "2017-11-25T11:23:17Z")
> [@SarahWitch](#): > > When the Lincoln GOP conquered the sovereign nation-states in 1861-65, under false color of national authority, then all power naturally defaulted to the federal government once the Peoples of the states no longer had it. > It is therefore imperative among the Peoples of each state, to reclaim their national sovereignty as continues to exist by law, and restore true Democracy to the world. Otherwise, oligarchy will continue. If the South had won the War for Slavery, “true Democracy would have been restored to the world”? Is this where you’re hoisting your petard? > [@DocCathode](#): > > **SarahWitch** I say this in complete seriousness. Could you please start a thread exposing your manifesto as it were? I’d be fascinated to hear your polictical beliefs and the reasoning behind them. Remind me via PM, _after_ she has afore-said petard in place. ---
**Author:** ![SarahWitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@SarahWitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SarahWitch)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/64 "2017-11-25T17:21:08Z")
Reported and blocked. I don’t mind responding to honest dissent, but personal insults and defamation I will not tolerate. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/65 "2017-11-25T17:40:56Z")
> [@SarahWitch](#): > > Sorry, you’re stuck Tiger. Actually, **Brainglutton** was banned quite a while ago. Arguing with him is kind of silly, since he cannot respond. A bit like masturbation. As I recall, he was (is?) also a lawyer of some sort, so I would tend to give his writings more weight than verses copied out of the SovCit scripturebook. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/66 "2017-11-25T18:16:27Z")
> [@SarahWitch](#): > > Reported and blocked. I don’t mind responding to honest dissent, but personal insults and defamation I will not tolerate. Do not indicate publicly who is on your ignore list outside of the Pit. I recommend you read the rules of this forum and of the board in general (stickied at the top of the forum and at the top of ATMB forum, respectivley) so as to not continue running afoul of the rules. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/67 "2017-11-25T18:37:40Z")
> [@SarahWitch](#): > > Reported and blocked. I don’t mind responding to honest dissent, but personal insults and defamation I will not tolerate. Well, the \*premiere expert on American law \*should never be subjected to such disrespect. Make them all shut up, show them your credentials. ---
**Author:** ![SarahWitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@SarahWitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SarahWitch)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045/68 "2017-11-25T22:41:53Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Actually, **Brainglutton** was banned quite a while ago. Arguing with him is kind of silly, since he cannot respond. A bit like masturbation. > > As I recall, he was (is?) also a lawyer of some sort, so I would tend to give his writings more weight than verses copied out of the SovCit scripturebook. Good to know, unlike the prior bit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-nation-state/230045.md?page=3)