# Is the upcoming domination of the electric car going to be a good thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438 "2021-10-29T03:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/61 "2021-10-31T21:12:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > the carrying capacity of this planet in terms of being able to feed its human inhabitants will ultimately crash. From a global perspective, we already produce way, way more food than we need to to sustain ourselves, on way more land than we need. Even a carrying capacity crash doesn’t have to mean everyone dies. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/62 "2021-10-31T21:14:03Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m astonished enough that you’d want to force people into cities when they clearly would not want to be there. He’s a toP loP, that is to say, a reverse Pol Pot. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/63 "2021-10-31T21:15:32Z")
It probably means that we can’t support a complex society like the one we have. Think current supply chain disruptions, multiplied by infinity. I’m thinking we’ll be back to hunter-gatherer level. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/64 "2021-10-31T21:21:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It probably means that we can’t support a complex society like the one we have Oh, definitely, but that’s a good thing. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m thinking we’ll be back to hunter-gatherer level Naah, we’ll still be an agricultural society. But nothing like the _industrial_ agriculture we have today. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/65 "2021-10-31T21:31:40Z")
Ahh, yes. Low-productivity, pre-industrial agriculture that requires 90% of the population to be engaged in food production, and an almost perfect set of circumstances for the development of feudalism. The good old days. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/66 "2021-10-31T21:37:29Z")
“One ruralist one bullet” will be the slogan of the ecological revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/67 "2021-10-31T22:18:59Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Ahh, yes. Low-productivity, pre-industrial agriculture that requires 90% of the population to be engaged in food production, and an almost perfect set of circumstances for the development of feudalism. The good old days. I’m only a few generations on from ancestors who lived a rural life in the high moors of north east england on land they didn’t own and was barely fertile enough to support them. Earning and growing enough to stop them from starving or freezing in the winter but never enough to enjoy any real comforts or make any real progress. I’m reliably informed, first-hand, that such a rural idyll was vastly overrated. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/68 "2021-11-01T08:00:25Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Low-productivity, pre-industrial agriculture that requires 90% of the population to be engaged in food production, and an almost perfect set of circumstances for the development of feudalism. Industrial agriculture is not “agriculture done by industrialized cultures”, it’s factory farming - feedlot cattle, battery chickens, miles of proprietary Monsanto monoculture. It’s entirely possible to do away with that without resorting to feudalism. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/69 "2021-11-01T08:30:03Z")
Does mechanization figure into your idiosyncratic definition of “industrial agriculture”? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/70 "2021-11-01T08:33:23Z")
[Nothing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_agriculture)[idiosyncratic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Environmental_impact) [about](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_crop_farming#Criticism) [it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_animal_feeding_operation). > a form of modern farming that refers to the industrialized production of crops and animals and animal products like eggs or milk. The methods of industrial agriculture include innovation in agricultural machinery and farming methods, genetic technology, techniques for achieving economies of scale in production, the creation of new markets for consumption, the application of patent protection to genetic information, and global trade. And I have no problem with _appropriate_ mechanization. I don’t expect farmers to give up their tractors for oxen. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/71 "2021-11-01T08:43:10Z")
I don’t see anything in there about monocultures or feedlot cattle, and I do see mention of “innovation in agricultural machinery.” Not to mention that the whole thing went hand-in-hand with the Industrial Revolution, which was about, you know… machines. Non-industrial agriculture that nevertheless includes machines seems like a rather idiosyncratic definition to me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/72 "2021-11-01T08:48:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Naah, we’ll still be an agricultural society. But nothing like the _industrial_ agriculture we have today. This is after you’ve herded us all into cities, remember. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/73 "2021-11-01T08:48:57Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I don’t see anything in there about monocultures or feedlot cattle Really? _Nothing_ in [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming) or [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_crop_farming) (both cites I included in that post, just to specific paragraphs)? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I do see mention of “innovation in agricultural machinery.” Which is fine when appropriate e.g electric tractors are a _great_ innovation. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Non-industrial agriculture that nevertheless includes machines seems like a rather idiosyncratic definition to me. Sustainable agriculture doesn’t mean abandoning all modern tools and committing global food suicide. Quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/74 "2021-11-01T08:50:31Z")
🙄 Well, I guess it takes a lot of hay seeds to make a giant man of straw. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/75 "2021-11-01T08:58:43Z")
Look, that was what started this whole Dibble-centric side discussion: you wanted to do away with the suburbs and force us all into cities, even though you were saying unlimited global warming was a given. And now you’re talking about a largely agricultural society in that extremely hot future. You can call it a strawman if you want to. But it sure seems to me like your ideas are in direct contradiction with one another, and your argument is with yourself. Why don’t you get back to us when you have decided which side you’re coming down on? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/76 "2021-11-01T09:03:44Z")
We’re getting pretty far off track here. If you want to continue, I’d say start a new thread. If you ask a mod, they can split the thread and move the last several posts. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/77 "2021-11-01T09:21:55Z")
I’m pretty much done with this side discussion anyway. My basic take on unchecked global warming is that there’s not going to be any soft landing between here and a fight for survival in the polar climes, so (a) it’s something to be avoided at all costs, and (b) we have to hope we’re not too late to avoid it. Within that context, a discussion of electric cars is quite relevant, and I’m ready to get back to it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/78 "2021-11-01T09:32:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > you wanted to do away with **the suburbs** So you acknowledge that I don’t want to “herd _everyone_ into cities”. Just the sprawl inhabitants. Which was the part that was related to the OP - that merely moving from ICE sprawl to EV sprawl is a _huge_ mistake. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > now you’re talking about a largely agricultural society in that extremely hot future _I’m_ not talking about a “largely agricultural society”. That’s your strawman. Sustainable agriculture _doesn’t_ mean we all have to become farmers again. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > We’re getting pretty far off track here. If you want to continue, I’d say start a new thread. If you ask a mod, they can split the thread and move the last several posts. You’re perfectly capable of asking a mod yourself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/79 "2021-11-01T09:43:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Just the sprawl inhabitants. OK, I correct myself. You would herd _the vast majority of Americans_ into cities. ‘Just.’ 🤣 Anyway, I’m done with this digression. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438/80 "2021-11-01T09:50:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You would herd _the vast majority of Americans_ into cities. Sure. Also all other countries, although sprawl _is_ much more identified with America, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-upcoming-domination-of-the-electric-car-going-to-be-a-good-thing/953438.md?page=5)