# Is the US already post Democracy spin-off from Ice Shooting thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2026, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535 "2026-01-10T15:06:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/121 "2026-01-14T02:28:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But I think America is post-past-the-point it has the chance to reverse course short-of-a-revolution So not “take sugar pills for your cancer” but “the only cure for your cancer is a lobotomy”. At least sugar pills are harmless… ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/122 "2026-01-14T02:37:17Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > He’s a rhetorical device they can say whatever we want them to say 😉 …but to be analogous to the situation, the Doctor would have to have said something _that wasn’t actually said_. madmonk28 said the equivalent of “the patient has cancer.” You then completely recontextualised what they said and pretended they said something different. If anything…thats the analogy. The Doctor said “the patient has cancer.” You listened to the doctor, they said those _exact words_, but you _heard something different_. You somehow took “the patient has cancer” to mean " chemotherapy drugs are just sugar pills, taking them actually helps the cancer” and you’ve been arguing ever since as if that were the reality when it isn’t. What madmonk28 said isn’t super controversial. It might be, in your opinion, wrong. Many people in America would agree with you. It’s a good subject for debate. But what that sentence _isn’t_ is “profascist.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/123 "2026-01-14T02:47:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So not “take sugar pills for your cancer” but “the only cure for your cancer is a lobotomy”. > > At least sugar pills are harmless… …what on earth are you talking about _now_? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/124 "2026-01-14T02:53:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > madmonk28 said the equivalent of “the patient has cancer.” Statement A…. > [@madmonk28](#): > > in fact these Potemkin Village vestiges of democracy **actually support** the authoritarian regime Statement B… > [@griffin1977](#): > > ”chemotherapy drugs are just sugar pills, taking them **actually helps** the cancer” These statements **are** analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/125 "2026-01-14T02:55:16Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > These statements **are** analogous. …nah, LOL. Not even _close_. Not even in the same ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/126 "2026-01-14T04:39:27Z")
So, what _exactly_ has trump done that is so Nazi-like? Rounding up undocumented aliens? Other Administrations have does this before- altho certainly not to the vigor and extent this White House has ordered. But it is perfectly legal- in fact i dont know of any nation where if you are not there legally- they cant deport you. Now, the trump policy is stupid, bigoted, wasteful, and counter-productive, but it _is_ legal and not fascist. And there is one silver lining- the farmers- who are generally die hard GOP voters- are getting pissed off. Yes, some actual citizens have been swept up, but innocent people are arrested by mistake all the time, and in every nation. His tariffs? Mostly stupid, wasteful, and counter-productive, but it _is_ legal and not fascist. At least for now. Getting even with those that prosecuted him? Yeah, that is kinda fascist and temper-tantrum like, but so far it really hasnt worked all that well. So what exactly has got 90% of the poster here so sure were are five minutes away from a trump fascist dictatorship? What has he done that is un-constitutional that has NOT been challenged- sometimes successfully? And see- the fact that the ACLU and various states have sued and WON is proof that we are far from “Sig Heil trump”. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/127 "2026-01-14T07:11:12Z")
Please tell me you forgot the /s. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/128 "2026-01-14T07:45:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, what _exactly_ has trump done that is so Nazi-like? …were you talking to anyone in particular? Because this is the first mention of Nazi’s and “Nazi-like.” ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/129 "2026-01-14T07:49:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …were you talking to anyone in particular? Because this is the first mention of Nazi’s and “Nazi-like.” That’s your question? I’m more than a little distressed that he seemingly has no idea what’s been going on since January. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/130 "2026-01-14T19:58:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > were you talking to anyone in particular? Because this is the first mention of Nazi’s and “Nazi-like.” Fascism has been mentioned dozens of times, including by you. > [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > That’s your question? I’m more than a little distressed that he seemingly has no idea what’s been going on since January. Got an answer? Yes, trump has been abusing his Executive powers, but so far either legally or when not, that has been challenged in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/131 "2026-01-14T22:29:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …what on earth are you talking about _now_? This: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But I think America is post-past-the-point it has the chance to reverse course short-of-a-revolution. If Trump’s Fascism is cancer, and voting is a medical treatment akin to chemotherapy but which is derided by some quack doctors as an ineffective sugar pill, then your suggested alternative of _revolution_ is equivalent to a lobotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/132 "2026-01-14T23:14:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Fascism has been mentioned dozens of times, including by you. …I mean, sure. I’ve been complaining how hard I find the word facism is to spell. I get it wrong so _often_ that I’m giving up using spellcheck to fix it. I can’t figure out why I have that problem. But I’m done trying to fix it. It is what it is. But outside of that, I don’t recall at any stage claiming that Trump has done anything that is so “Nazi-like.” I’ve been very clear on how I’m defining “post Democracy” in the context of this thread and that definition doesn’t include Nazi’s roaming the streets. As for the other points you make: > [@DrDeth](#): > > Rounding up undocumented aliens? Its a bit more than _that_. Its not as if this White House is just doing it with more “vigour.” That’s a laughable recontextualisation of what we are actually seeing on the ground. As Vice President Vance said himself: they are going [door-to-door](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/01/08/jd-vance-promises-aggressive-immigration-enforcement/88086884007/) looking for people, that really isn’t in their remit, right? Every day I’m seeing new videos of these ICE and Border Patrol masked thugs out on the street, interrogating and abducting brown and Black people for no reason other than either the colour of their skin or their accent. That’s kinda facist, right? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, some actual citizens have been swept up, but innocent people are arrested by mistake all the time, and in every nation. I think you need to think about what “sweeping up” actual citizens actually means in this context. Because again: that heavily implies that ICE are operating well outside their remit. The reports are consistent: they are roaming neighbourhoods looking for brown people in “military convoys” and snatching them off the streets. That’s kinda fascist, right? I’ve just tried to look up if there were any examples of New Zealand citizens “accidentally” swept up in immigration raids. There was an ugly period of our history called the [“Dawn Raids.”](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/dawn-raids) They happened in the 70’s and targeted brown people like me. I can’t find anything about NZ citizens being swept up during the raids, though. And I certainly can’t find anything like that happening in the last 20 odd years. > [@DrDeth](#): > > His tariffs? Has _anyone_ called his tariffs “facist?” > [@DrDeth](#): > > Getting even with those that prosecuted him? Yeah, that is kinda fascist and temper-tantrum like LOL. “Kinda fascist” is _actually_ fascist. > [@DrDeth](#): > > So what exactly has got 90% of the poster here so sure were are five minutes away from a trump fascist dictatorship? As I keep pointing out, this thread is titled “post Democracy.” It’s a split thread. Probably a moderator came up with that title. I think its a much more useful term than “fascist dictatorship” or “authoritarianism regime” because I’m not sure what we will see with this administration and what follows will ever quite fit _either_ of those things. And I don’t think we are “five minutes away” because we are _living in the present_. “Five minutes away” implies there is a magical threshold that needs crossing, but where we are actually at is where we are _right now_. I don’t think we are five minutes away from a “trump fascist dictatorship.” I think we are living “post-Democracy”. It’s a “post-truth” world. > [@Babale](#): > > If Trump’s Fascism is cancer …but I’m not talking about “Trump’s fascism.” Trump isn’t going to be around forever. Heck: he might not even last the rest of his term. But this doesn’t end with Trump and its a mistake to think that it will. And I’m not talking about “fascism.” This generation will live through an entirely different thing that will ultimately be defined by the historians. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/133 "2026-01-15T13:33:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > As I keep pointing out, this thread is titled “post Democracy.” It’s a split thread. Probably a moderator came up with that title. Yes, this is a split thread. The title came from the phrase that I used in one of my posts. I used that phrase because I think that it accurately describes where the US is: we are on the road to fascism and have passed the point which we could return to our previous state. I hadn’t intended to start a separate thread and I don’t know how interested I am in maintaining this one, but I wanted to point out that I notice that older white America has narrowed the definition of fascism as to make it meaningless. In their minds, fascism is Nazism and anything that isn’t 1940s end stage Nazism isn’t fascism. This definition ignores the history of the rise of fascism in Germany and the steady increase in its pressures. Fascism relies on a large segment of society denying what is happening and insisting that people would be fine if they just stopped making trouble; in my experience, these people always come from the protected class that will be fine under authoritarianism. In short, they weren’t using their rights anyway, so what’s the big deal? You make a good point that America is creating its own new form of authoritarianism. It could well be that a century from now, citizens of another country are warning that their country is slipping in to Trumpism. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/134 "2026-01-15T13:38:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You make a good point that America is creating its own new form of authoritarianism. …its like comparing ICE agents to Nazi’s and like…no. They aren’t Nazi’s. They are _ICE agents_. And a hundred years from now the Wikipedia article on ICE agents will read completely different to how it reads now. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535/135 "2026-01-15T14:05:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …its like comparing ICE agents to Nazi’s and like…no. They aren’t Nazi’s. They are _ICE agents_. And a hundred years from now the Wikipedia article on ICE agents will read completely different to how it reads now. And comparing it to Nazism is to move the goal posts so far as to never be attainable, and so we never need worry about it. So far, I think Trump is the most like Pinochet, but we’ll see. > **[Searching reporters’ homes, repressing dissent are well-known steps to...](https://www.salon.com/2026/01/15/searching-reporters-homes-repressing-dissent-are-well-known-steps-to-autocracy_partner/)** > > The administration's latest actions are awfully familiar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-us-already-post-democracy-spin-off-from-ice-shooting-thread/1026535.md?page=6)