Top three causes of car fires are:
- Fuel leaks - gasoline on hot car parts
- Electrical faults - 12 volt battery or work electrical harness
- Other fluid leaks - oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid etc.
Around here, installing central air is often the can-opening event.
“There’s a whole lot of privilege”? Let’s just negate climate change impacts for everyone, especially future generations, just because some people can’t currently charge in their apartment garages then. Those of us “with privilege” shouldn’t buy BEVs or use rooftop solar to charge them because some people can’t? I think there’s a whole lotta judgment in that Big Oil talking point above. Incidentally, my 24yo stepson is doing great with his Volt parked outside his apartment, and hopes it’s the last car he’ll have to buy. He gets 45 mpg on gas when he doesn’t charge elsewhere.
We did need to upgrade our electrical service from 100 amp to 200 when we installed our second level-2 charger, and that cost $5,000 for the upgrade. Glad we did - we had lots of other electrical demands over time, and squirrels had nearly chewed through the supply line anyway.
Who the hell is saying that here? Give quotes.
What people are saying is that “EVs – as they stand today – are a great solution for a lot of people, but a terrible option for a lot of people, too, including those who do not have a garage or a charging station very close to their homes.”
Your very very favorite phase, it seems like.
Here you go Kenobi.
Yes, they said that…and they are not wrong. What @asterion is saying is exactly what I just replied to you: EVs, today, are a poor option for a lot of people, especially those who do not have their own garage.
And that is not what I am pointing out to you – I’m asking you to show where people in this thread are saying this:
An EV works great for you? That’s awesome! It doesn’t work great for everyone, and people who believe that they will not work for them are not necessarily just parroting fucking “Big Oil talking points.”
Your reaction is a little frustrating given that I could find that original quote with a simple “find” in this thread. I guess I’m new so not to be trusted.
What I am saying is there are plenty of solutions over time. Gas stations weren’t common when horse and buggy was the main form of transportation. I assume we shouldn’t have invented the ICE at all then by the same token? I linked an apartment solution in my quote above. I also think every Walmart and Ralphs/Kroger should have fast chargers in the next 10 years so everyone can charge when they buy their groceries. Ultimately gas stations should be replaced with fast chargers… maybe solar/wind turbine and batteries would supplement their energy. Speaking of which, have you driven through rural farmland in the last few years? They are often covered in solar and wind farms. Farmers know how to make money.
Throwing up your hands and shouting “privilege” at early adopters is going to do nothing to save us from climate change. My husband even thinks we won’t be able to fly commercially in 10 years due to climate change expense.
And EVs are a much better driving experience than ICE cars - quieter, more pickup, no exhaust.
When did I say they work best for everyone, now? That’s a lazy strawman.
I think “there’s a whole lotta privilege” is an obvious slap in the face to those of us who are trying now to do something about the environment and have the means and the house to do so.
Do you have any data to show that people are specifically being harmed in house fires by hydrogen fluoride?
That is not what people are saying here, IMO. And if that’s what your takeaway from this thread is – as was your earlier statement that we are all just blindly believing what “Big Oil” is telling us, then there’s no use debating this with you.
Yes, absolutely, we, as a society, need to figure out how to get away from fossil fuels, and we need to do it sooner rather than later – hell, we frankly needed to have figured it out decades ago. I don’t think you will get much pushback on that idea here, and certainly not from me.
What is being said in this thread (IMO) is that some people are saying “Today’s EVs are a great solution for me, and I think that people who think otherwise have their heads in the sand,” and others are saying – for, IMO, legitimate reasons – “no, for me, today’s EVs are not a great solution, and this is why.” I do not think that anyone is saying, “just because they are great for you and not for me means that you shouldn’t have an EV, either.”
Nobody here is saying that either.
My concern about “Big Oil talking points” is the (IMO irrational) fear that battery fires and running out of juice and the worse effects of battery production are a product of Big Oil’s propaganda machine, and that they are installing fear of EVs among my otherwise climate-conscious friends. The fact that so many people negate the benefits of EVs with “I might take a road trip” is extremely frustrating. Most people aren’t road tripping all the time. Here’s an (old) counter to some of the anti EV greatest hits.
This is a fear that should ease over time but hasn’t yet. My husband’s EV is 10 years old, has only 85 miles of range, and he’s still driven it 90,000 miles with zero emissions.
I get it, and that is discussed upthread. As I noted there, the issue is that most people don’t want to think too hard, and are accustomed to the idea that their current car can handle not only their regular use, but an unexpected or occasional use, with no real change in habit.
Getting them to change that thinking and that habit requires new knowledge, but also requires them to accept that, for some of them, it also means adopting new behaviors that are not quite as convenient as today’s – for example, accepting that a “refueling stop” may take 30 minutes instead of 5.
You’re missing the point- for some people, EVs are a great choice. But for others, they’re very inconvenient and/or impractical, and no amount of trying to shame people into buying an EV is going to change that.
Take me for example. Most of my driving is ideal for an EV. Probably 85% of the miles I put on my vehicle I’d estimate. But the other 15% is typically out into the boonies with the Boy Scouts, and most places we go aren’t EV friendly, and it’s a big pain in the butt to have to stop for 30 minutes to an hour just to charge an EV when I’m trying to keep to a rough schedule on a longer trip- say to Carlsbad, NM. That puts the boys in my truck there considerably later than everyone else. And when you get outside of major metro areas, the charging points are fewer, further between, and often inconveniently located. So it wouldn’t be stopping for lunch and charging the car at the same time; it would be one then the other.
And that’s assuming there are charging stations at the right intervals and I don’t have to stop to charge early, or go well out of my way to find one, adding time and inconvenience.
The ideal vehicle would be a plug-in hybrid mid-size pickup, but nobody makes one of those, so I ended up with another gas pickup.
Eventually EVs will get there when one of two things happens- either the range becomes so long that charging station availability becomes a moot point, or charging stations become similarly convenient in both time and availability as gas stations. For many, that’s already the case if they just plug in overnight at home, and never really go anywhere far away. But for the people who do, they and more importantly, the supporting infrastructure just aren’t there yet.
Thirty minutes instead of five wouldn’t be too bad on a road trip if it was possible to walk away from the car, hit the restroom, maybe get a bite to eat, and then get moving with a full charge. That assumes that the infrastructure exists, that it’s working properly, that there’s enough that there’s not a queue for something like two chargers, and that the range of the vehicle is such that you’d probably want to stop about then anyway.
Out of curiosity I threw together some quick plans in a randomly chosen Ford Mustang Mach E. All are trips I’ve either taken or plan to take this year. For Albuquerque to Denver, according to this, I would have to stop in Las Vegas and Raton and Pueblo, though I do know there’s some chargers in Trinidad. To Las Vegas, NV the planner claims Holbrook and Flagstaff. To Phoenix, possibly just Holbrook. Salt Lake City, possibly just Cortez and Green River.
For comparison, I drove to Las Vegas a couple weeks ago and stopped for gas exactly three times. Once in Holbrook on the way out, and then in Kingman and Gallup on the way back. I was averaging about 42 MPG. To Phoenix last year was just Holbrook both ways. I expect Denver to be just Trinidad and SLC to probably be Green River.
And yes, I do say that it’s a privilege to assume that someone can cheaply charge at home for daily use. Or to assume that the costs of a rental car for a road trip are trivial.
Note that folks driving from the coast to las Vegas, have a drive of like 280 miles, Not many EVs have that sort of range.
Apartment charging is an issue- who pays for the power? And how do you make sure only the resident of Apt 212 uses that charger? You can enter a code, sure- subject to hacking, or just make them all public chargers, where you pay by Credit card.
Also, remember the cost up front- the $5000 or so extra. New cars today are pricey, many cant afford that extra cost. This is why EV tax breaks are needed, give a $5000 or whatever tax break, and the vehicle becomes competative.
Incidentally - my neighbor has several vehicles- Jeeps for off roading- and a small EV for commuting. His garage is used to work on the cars, etc, so the EV charges outside- and he has solar.
I just don’t get it. People here are still claiming that it’s privilege to assume everyone can charge in their garages. I never made that claim, nor does anyone else. The argument seems to be that if we don’t consider the poor apartment dwellers, nobody can have a BEV. That’s not true - it’s just insulting to a left-of-center person with a garage who just wants to do her best to delay global warming, reduce smog, travel more efficiently, avoid oil changes, and have a nice, quiet car. It’s a deliberate slam.
You know what’s privilege? Owning a car at all.
If everyone who had the ability to charge at home bought an EV, we’d go a long way to reducing climate change. And the rest would come. Examples: new apartment construction would require EV charging capability (already a thing), increasing EV battery capacity (Leaf already at 280+ and that’s a long way to drive without a meal break) and solid state batteries on the horizon.
Tesla superchargers take many brands of cars now. They also come near restaurants and other ways to spend your 30 minutes charging time. So basically you’re taking a much-needed break every 200 miles (3 hours) and grabbing a snack.
It just feels like a lot of excuses are being made to avoid change. With global warming, change is really becoming necessary, and these cars require less maintenance, are cheaper to run, and are just more fun.
Again: who here has actually made that argument? Truly.
I think that you are really bristling and offended by that word “privilege,” and not listening to what people are saying because of it.
Yes, I am offended by this.
The quote above was exactly what I was addressing. And I never assumed rental car costs are trivial, but let’s go there. If you can own a car and pay for the gas and maintenance and oil changes (nonexistent for a BEV), you can invest your BEV-over-ICE savings in a rental car for the 1-2x a year that the hypothetical drive to a place too-remote-for EV-chargers will cost.
And the other 95% of your miles driven will be zero emissions in a better car.
If you’re privileged enough to have rooftop solar, all the better. It’ll be really cheap to run your car.
I don’t see a lot of people here arguing that they personally can’t have an EV because they live in an apartment. They just talk about the hypothetical road trips to the boonies every so often and how expensive it is to rent a car.
I personally cannot have an EV right now because I live in an apartment, take enough road trips through places that charging is a non-trivial consideration, and have no interest in taking on a car loan to replace something that is already paid off. Does that mean I will never buy one? No, both my situation and the technology may change enough for an EV to be a valid option when it’s time to replace my hybrid. But I’m not going to go buy one now and one of the problems that some of the people that strongly advocate for them aren’t willing to accept people taking the half measures of a PHEV or a traditional hybrid and that turns some non owners off from even looking at the possibility.