# Is the USDA/Health Department making us more susceptible to nature? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863 "2018-04-21T15:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mrdeals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Mrdeals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrdeals)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/1 "2018-04-21T15:23:58Z")
Title pretty much says it all. With the close monitoring of our food and environment, it seems to coincide with a massive increase in allergies. I don’t have any data on how many people got foodbourne illnesses before and after these were established. My anendotal evidence that they are in fact screwing with our bodies natural defenses; I am friends with a Schwartenzentruber colony, for those that don’t know of them, they are basically “super Amish” very strict order who live their lives in the 1700s. I have never seen a people play so loose with food. I have seen them butcher a cow in the middle of summer on one farm, throw it on their horse drawn cart, and deliver it to the other colony member the next day. Where do we keep our milk? Front porch. Everyone I know in the colony is healthy, allergy free, and they live well into their 80s with probably less health problems than most. So are the Schwartzentrubers genetically superior, or has the government weakened us? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/2 "2018-04-21T15:54:34Z")
Uhhh, food allergies and food borne illnesses are wildly different things. I’m not entirely sure if you’re using the terms interchangeably and meaning food poisoning or if you’re lumping both things together. It should also be noted that your sample is made up of just a few people. Even if that entire colony never once got sick, they only make up about 3000 of 700,000,000 people in the US. IOW, that’s like saying ‘nobody I went to school with ever got e.coli, therefore, going to my school makes you immune to it’. It’s possible they have a more rugged immune system, or maybe they’re just doing a good job with sanitation. I’ve never been an a [bad] car accident, but I still wear a seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/3 "2018-04-21T16:15:52Z")
On top of the obvious concerns with anecdotal guessing and the lack of a causal link between a lack of food pathogens and an increase in food allergies, I’ll point out that the habits of a small agrarian community does not scale up into a national food distribution network. Keeping your milk on the front porch might work fine when you have a daily supply of fresh milk. Processes for slaughtering and distributing meat in the short term may work fine in a farming community. Trying to keep New York City in fresh milk and beef that way isn’t going to happen without rampant spoilage and food borne illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/4 "2018-04-21T16:32:49Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > It should also be noted that your sample is made up of just a few people. Even if that entire colony never once got sick, they only make up about 3000 of 700,000,000 people in the US. IOW, that’s like saying ‘nobody I went to school with ever got e.coli, therefore, going to my school makes you immune to it’. Your numbers are both off by more than double - there’s only 326 million people in the US, not 700 million. And there are more than 7,000 Schwartzentrubers. But yeah, very small sample sizes, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/5 "2018-04-21T16:47:58Z")
I don’t know about wienerschnitzel colonies, but it has long been proposed that increases in allergies could be in part caused by “undertraied” immune systems. Take a look at a few of the articles [in the top Google hits](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&ei=VGnbWrLAKOe0jwTa75XQDQ&q=allergies+too+clean&oq=allergies+too+clean&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30k1l4.57128.60708.0.60951.19.9.0.0.0.0.855.855.6-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..18.1.853....0.wlAj3M1HLyU) (which of course contradict each other.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/6 "2018-04-21T17:39:49Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Your numbers are both off by more than double - there’s only 326 million people in the US, not 700 million. And there are more than 7,000 Schwartzentrubers. > > But yeah, very small sample sizes, regardless. I was typing fast and looking things up quickly to get in before the edit window ran out. I just checked wiki again, and the population is, as you said, 7000. But it also says they have 3100 ‘members’. As for 700 million people in the US, as it turns out, 700 million is the amount of results google gave me when I searched for it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/7 "2018-04-21T17:53:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I don’t know about wienerschnitzel colonies, but it has long been proposed that increases in allergies could be in part caused by “undertraied” immune systems. That seems to mainly deal with asthma and dust/pollen allergies though rather than sensitivity to strawberries or peanuts. There’s other sources saying to introduce foods like peanuts and shellfish to babies early on but that (even if a good idea) doesn’t have much to do with health regulations. Presumably raw shrimp stored and transported in accordance to modern sanitation guidelines work just as well as prawns found on some Amish guy’s back porch. Edit: Typing that, even as a joke, makes me also think that if you live in an insular farming community in the northern US, you just may not be eating some common food allergy culprits anyway. How many Schwartenzentruber are eating lobster and peanuts? I honestly have no idea but if those are rare foods in that community, they could be sensitive and just never know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/8 "2018-04-21T18:21:16Z")
The “hygiene hypothesis” has some adherents in attempting to explain reported increases in allergies, but it’s far from established science (a similar argument is made about vaccine-preventable diseases supposedly being a good thing because they “tune up” the immune system - a truly bogus claim from all we know). We hear from various sources how supposedly healthy the Amish are\*, but whether or not they have a lower allergy rate may depend not just on exposure to germs on the farm, but such things as cleanliness and genetics. It’s worth mentioning that while I haven’t heard of large-scale food poisoning/contamination outbreaks traced to Amish products such as we currently have with Romaine lettuce from the Yuma area, Amish goods [are not free of this problem](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/us/amish-families-home-cooked-meals-come-under-state-scrutiny.html). _“A few foodborne illnesses have been linked to domestic kitchens that sell homemade food to the public. They include canned green beans sold at markets in several states and candy sold by the Amish that led to a stomach virus outbreak that sickened 48 people in Minnesota in 2002.”_ > **[Amish Foods Scrutinized For Safety](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amish-foods-scrutinized-for-safety/)** > > Government Regulators Worry About Lack Of Refrigeration At Unlicensed Home Bakeries While it’s possible that our preoccupation with hand-washing/sanitizing may come at some health cost, I’m not about to discard safe food-handling practices and government regulations/oversight in exchange for the theoretical possibility of lowering the allergy rate.\*\* \*the Amish [are not a super-healthy people overall](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/why-are-anti-vaxxers-rallying-behind-the-amish/384151/), what with disorders linked to obesity, and multiple genetic diseases. \*\*I suspect the victims and their parents affected in the 1996 E. coli outbreak traced to unpasteurized apple juice in the Pacific Northwest would probably agree. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/9 "2018-04-21T19:51:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > … whether or not they have a lower allergy rate may depend not just on exposure to germs on the farm, but such things as cleanliness and genetics. … Specifically in relation to asthma and allergy there has been some [attempt](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1508749) to control for those factors. > [@NEJM](#): > > Their lifestyles are similar with respect to most of the factors known to influence the risk of asthma, including large sibship size, high rates of childhood vaccination, diets rich in fat, salt, and raw milk, low rates of childhood obesity, long durations of breast-feeding, minimal exposure to tobacco smoke and air pollution, and taboos against indoor pets. However, whereas the Amish practice traditional farming, live on single-family dairy farms, and use horses for fieldwork and transportation, the Hutterites live on large, highly industrialized, communal farms. Strikingly, the prevalence of asthma in Amish versus Hutterite schoolchildren is 5.2% versus 21.3% and the prevalence of allergic sensitization is 7.2% versus 33.3%, as previously reported.10,11 … > > … Our studies in Amish and Hutterite schoolchildren revealed marked differences in the prevalence of asthma despite similar genetic ancestries and lifestyles. As compared with the Hutterites, the Amish, who practice traditional farming and are exposed to an environment rich in microbes, showed exceedingly low rates of asthma and distinct immune profiles that suggest profound effects on innate immunity. Data generated in an experimental model of asthma support this notion by showing that the protective effect of the Amish environment requires the activation of innate immune signaling. > > Analyses of the proportions and gene-expression profiles of peripheral-blood immune cells in Amish and Hutterite children revealed differences in the cells and genes involved in innate immune responses to microbes. … A [synopsis](https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/08/04/growing-amish-farms-protects-children-against-asthma) of the study: > [@](#): > > The first gee-whiz moment came from the blood studies, which revealed startling differences between the innate immune response from the Amish and Hutterites. > > “The Amish had more and younger neutrophils, blood cells crucial to fight infections and fewer eosinophils—blood cells that promote allergic inflammation,” said study co-author, immunologist Anne Sperling, associate professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. Gene expression profiles in blood cells also revealed enhanced activation of key innate immunity genes in Amish children. > > The second eureka moment came from experiments using mice. When study co-author and immunologist Donata Vercelli, professor of cellular and molecular medicine at the University of Arizona, exposed mice to house-dust extracts, she found the airways of mice that received Amish dust were protected from asthma-like responses to allergens. In contrast, mice exposed to Hutterite house dust were not protected. > > What was different? Dust collected from Amish homes was “much richer in microbial products,” the authors note, than dust from Hutterite homes. > > “Neither the Amish nor the Hutterites have dirty homes,” Ober explained. “Both are tidy. The Amish barns, however, are much closer to their homes. Their children run in and out of them, often barefoot, all day long. There’s no obvious dirt in the Amish homes, no lapse of cleanliness. It’s just in the air, and in the dust.” > > To better understand how asthma protection was achieved, the researchers used mice that lack MyD88 and Trif, genes crucial for innate immune responses. In these mice, the protective effect of the Amish dust was completely lost. > > “The results of the mouse experiments conclusively prove that products from the Amish environment are sufficient to confer protection from asthma, and highlight the novel, central role that innate immunity plays in directing this process,” Vercelli said. … > > … “You can’t put a cow in every family’s house,” Ober added, “but we may be able to protect children from asthma by finding a way to recreate the time-tested Amish experience.” So no need to risk food borne disease. We just need some Amish dust. Do they share genetic heritage with pixies? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/10 "2018-04-22T01:45:28Z")
There’s nothing in that paper to support the OP’s speculation that the government/USDA has somehow “weakened us”, supposedly creating allergies and other health problems. Nor does it prove the “hygiene hypothesis” (as breathlessly claimed in news coverage of the paper’s release). As noted by **DSeid** the paper cites good hygiene in Amish homes, while describing (in addition to “Amish dust”), an array of lifestyle factors that differ to varying degrees from non-Amish families (these include dietary differences, more time spent in outdoor activities, longer breastfeeding etc.). For those who think the “hygiene hypothesis” means we should limit or eliminate food safety regulations in order to get our quota of bacteria and viruses, [here’s a review](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4966430/)\* that provides other food for thought. \*"…the public idea that obsessive hygiene and cleanliness is the root cause of the rise in allergies is no longer supported. Data show that relevant microbial exposures are almost entirely unrelated to hygiene as the public understands it. This is partly because sustaining the human microbiome through diet and avoiding excessive antibiotic usage are factors entirely unrelated to hygiene…data are now strong enough to encourage changes, such as encouraging natural childbirth, physical interaction between siblings and non-siblings, more sport and other outdoor activities (including babies in prams), and less time spent indoors, and reduced antibiotic consumption. …the term ‘hygiene hypothesis’ is a misleading and dangerous misnomer…we…have to change public, public health and professional perceptions about the microbiome and about hygiene. Recent media articles which promote unsubstantiated suggestions that reduced handwashing could be a means to build and sustain a diverse gut microbiome are in direct conflict with public health agency advice on handwashing which is identified as probably the most important ‘critical control point’ for preventing spread of infection in all settings."\* So, it’s still a good idea for your local health department to enforce regulations for handwashing by restaurant workers. We don’t have to risk norovirus outbreaks (hello Chipotle) so that little Junior has less risk of getting hay fever or peanut allergy. \*an important point raised in the linked review is that the critical time for developing a healthy microbiome is right around birth and on into early infancy. Thus it probably matters much less what the microorganism composition of dust in your house is on an ongoing basis, in comparison to what bugs the baby is exposed to in earliest life. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-usda-health-department-making-us-more-susceptible-to-nature/812863/11 "2018-04-22T05:04:04Z")
100% agree with all said by **Jackmannii** above. Including the emphasis on reduced antibiotic exposure, time playing outdoors, and the critical importance of early, even prenatal, factors in establishing healthy microbiomes and healthy immune systems. The last lines of my contribution to this thread were not just throwaway. Both these groups, the one high in allergies and the one low, have similar exposures in terms of food safety (inclusive of raw milk) … it was not early childhood exposure to potential food contamination that seems to provide protection from allergies and asthma, but specifically to the household dust of the Amish environment. And the animal study was not feeding that dust to them but depositing it in their noses.