# Is the whole Steampunk phenomenon a reaction to ubiquitous digital technology? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140 "2011-05-08T06:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/41 "2011-05-09T03:12:40Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You know what, you’re such a great sociological genius, I’m going to have to bow to your expertise. You’re right. Steampunk has no value or importance whatseover. All the people who spend countless hours, dollars and imagination designing and building every steampunk device and costume under the sun actually _don’t care about it at all_. I didn’t say they don’t care about it at all. Did I? You did. I said their care is a subjective, temporary emotional drive to identify with a current new trend, as they perceive it, that will help define their existence. This pattern of behavior has happened zillions of times before in the human recorded history. This steampunk thing is just another fad. For the record, I’m not a genius of sociology. My sociological knowledge is average. It’s the knowledge of most other people that is lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/42 "2011-05-09T03:17:32Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > … designing and building every steampunk device … I know I probably just need to relax and drop it but it needles me every time you use this sort of terminology about steampunk. “Device” to me sounds like something that _does_ something. Maybe “prop” or “artwork” or something would be better. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/43 "2011-05-09T03:20:29Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > I didn’t say they don’t care about it at all. Did I? You did. > > I said their care is a subjective, temporary emotional drive to identify with a current new trend, as they perceive it, that will help define their existence. > > This pattern of behavior has happened zillions of times before in the human recorded history. This steampunk thing is just another fad. > > For the record, I’m not a genius of sociology. My sociological knowledge is average. It’s the knowledge of most other people that is lacking. Its a genre. Certainly its one thats in vogue right now, but its not really any more a “fad” then science fiction or historical fiction are “fads”. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/44 "2011-05-09T11:24:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Its a genre. Certainly its one thats in vogue right now, but its not really any more a “fad” then science fiction or historical fiction are “fads”. Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction. It also has developed a fan base that likes to dress up as charcters who woudl fit into a steampunk story. This includes modifying their gadgets (like ipods, cell phones, or flash drives) to look as if they were made by hand in an Victorian workshop. And as CalMeacham pointed out, the aesthetic is much more “Hollywood Victorian” than anything actually made 150 years ago. And, aside from a few hobbyists who restore or build steam engines, none of the gadgetry works or enhances the workings of the devices. That’s the beauty of it – it does nothing! Personal time and effort expended for purely decorative results! Yes, it is in part a reaction against the bland, functionalist design philosophy of most consumer goods produced today. (Many of the photos online are from conventions and other events – judging how Steampunks dress or act by those photos is like expecting homosexuals to act like it’s Gay Pride Parade day every day.) There will be many folks who don’t “get it.” No problem, there are a lot of things people are into that I don’t “get.” (Sports fans, reality shows, most partisan politics, excessive tattooing or piercings, I can come up with an extensive list.) If you happen to be the type of person who prefers a Garmin GPS to a brass sextant, so be it. But as an aesthetic choice, and all else being equal, I will pick the brass-bound, hand-crafted alternative or a reasonable simulation. Because it looks cool. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/45 "2011-05-09T12:08:36Z")
… and upon thinking about it a little, over the past two years or so we are seeing people being attracted to the Steampunk tweed-leather-brass-mechanical style as a fashion statement without any awareness of the genre. I don’t expect them to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/46 "2011-05-09T12:30:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That may be part of it.\* I personally think that a big part of it is a reaction against the near relentless utilitarian minimalist blankness of modern technology. Black, gray or white boxes that just sit there enigmatically, don’t look like they do anything and don’t do much beyond make whirring noises, if that. As opposed to complicated tangles of piping and gears and pistons that just scream "I do stuff’, and technology that has lots of unnecessary flourishes and fins and a brass dragon head attached to the front of it. Steampunk has style; modern technology generally goes out of its way to have none. I agree. It’s a \*romantic \*response to technology and user interfaces, not exactly a backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/47 "2011-05-09T15:38:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I have viewed the whole Steampunk phenomenon as an outsider looking in, rather than a devoted fan or even someone with a basic knowledge of what steampunk is. I know virtually nothing about the genre, other than that it involves old-fashioned convoluted steam-powered brass machinery and that it has some conceptual roots in Jules Verne’s stories. But it seems to me that it’s all over the internet nowadays, and has attracted a prettty vast following of fans creating all sorts of steampunk devices. Steampunk computers, steampunk phones, steampunk cars and motorcycles, and so on and so forth. The whole thing really seems to have captivated the public’s imagination and I foresee it making even further inroads into popular culture. > > I have a theory about this: it is a backlash against the fact that we have digital technology constantly all around us. It’s inescapable. Computers and associated devices like smartphomes have worked their way into every imaginable facet of life. It’s getting to the point where I’m not even surprised upon hearing a robotic-sounding ringtone of “DROIIIID” emenating from the pocket of some ancient old man at a Masonic lodge. > > The young people, it seems, are sick of it all. (Not _really_ enough to give up the conveniences of it, maybe - sick of it in the way that a spoiled kid is “sick of” his rich parents who buy him everything he wants.) The backlash has manifested itself in this fantastical orgy of old-fashioned, steam-powered brass machinery that represents the opposite of slick digital technology. > > Is there any chance that I’m onto something here? There was an anime convention in a hotel I was staying at where a bunch of kids were dressed up in what looked like victorian dress combined with lots of brass molding and borg like attachments. I don’t know if it is about anything more than looking kinda interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/48 "2011-05-09T16:30:52Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I agree. It’s a \*romantic \*response to technology and user interfaces, not exactly a backlash. If the Steampunks really hated modern technology, they wouldn’t create all those websites! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/49 "2011-05-09T16:44:59Z")
Do the Renaissance Festival and the SCA reflect a desire to return to medieval times? The aesthetics of steampunk strike a chord with certain people, just as the aesthetics of medieval times strike a chord with others. Other people really adore the 1930s, and we’ve seen an increase in younger people wearing fedoras and newsboy hats. As with every small subcommunity, the internet has allowed those people who have a fondness for a particular aesthetic to communicate and congregate. It looks like a movement or fad when it’s really just people who’ve always enjoyed a thing finally being able to get together and talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/50 "2011-05-09T17:19:12Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I know I probably just need to relax and drop it but it needles me every time you use this sort of terminology about steampunk. “Device” to me sounds like something that _does_ something. Maybe “prop” or “artwork” or something would be better. Are you saying that, say, a [steampunk casemod](http://www.datamancer.net/) isn’t a “device” because the guy didn’t build the electronics himself? because that would be pedantic. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/51 "2011-05-09T17:33:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you saying that, say, a [steampunk casemod](http://www.datamancer.net/) isn’t a “device” because the guy didn’t build the electronics himself? because that would be pedantic. It’s a prop or a piece of artwork designed entirely for aesthetic purposes. That’s what differentiates it from a device. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/52 "2011-05-09T17:43:24Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > And, aside from a few hobbyists who restore or build steam engines, none of the gadgetry works or enhances the workings of the devices. That’s the beauty of it – it does nothing! Personal time and effort expended for purely decorative results! There’s people doing things like telephones and typewriters and I think bicycles such that the ornate mechanics are actually part of the working machine. Not that those things then work any _better_, I suppose. It’s still a pure aesthetic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/53 "2011-05-09T17:52:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It’s a prop or a piece of artwork designed entirely for aesthetic purposes. That’s what differentiates it from a device. But they work. They’re designed as aesthetic works \*and \*as \*\*functioning \*\*keyboards/laptops/guitar amps/etc. It’s no different than if I built a working steamroller, but I buy the boiler I use from an outside boilermaker. The steamroller is still a device, and so is one of Datamancer’s keyboards. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/54 "2011-05-09T18:26:26Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > I didn’t say they don’t care about it at all. Did I? You did. > > I said their care is a subjective, temporary emotional drive to identify with a current new trend, as they perceive it, that will help define their existence. > > This pattern of behavior has happened zillions of times before in the human recorded history. This steampunk thing is just another fad. > > For the record, I’m not a genius of sociology. My sociological knowledge is average. It’s the knowledge of most other people that is lacking. The stuff about sociology is called sarcasm. The fact that you want to dismiss a phenomenon because it is short in duration means you are showing little knowledge of sociology. This is the type of stuff sociologists study. They know that fads do not start randomly. Eventually they always get to the point where people only do it because it’s cool, but that’s not why they occur. Even my pet rock has sociological implications: the idea that an imaginary pet can make up for the real thing is ridiculous on its face, but apparently people found that type of companionship useful during that time period. What we can learn about human behavior is outright fascinating. Oh, and I think steampunk is about the juxtaposition of the past with the future. In stories, it can make the past more relatable, or it can take the wonder of science fiction and use modern technology. It’s a creative exercise. When we get out in the real world, it’s a fashion statement, a less sleek aesthetic, a pull towards the amazing things you can do simply. To elaborate on the last point, think about special effects in movies. They don’t wow us anymore. It’s all CGI. But, when you find out that a special effect was a practical one, and it looks good, isn’t that a lot more impressive? Steampunk is a lot of things. It’s romanticism of the past without giving up the future. It’s even got elements of Hipsterism in it. What was once ugly is now cool. It’s a unique blend of all these things that could not have happened earlier in history. It’s a weird mix of retro nostalgia and futurism, and that is sociologically fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/55 "2011-05-09T23:05:29Z")
There’s been a definite hipster fetishisation of pre-digital techologies that seems in some way a reaction against the digital milieu. Loads of records are released on tape again now and vinyl is perhaps the most popular its been in 20 years. Conversely CDs are increasingly considered pointless wastes of space by many. How this all fits in exactly with the steam punk ethos I don’t know, but releasing an audio cassette in 2011 seems like an activity at least on the same continuum. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/56 "2011-05-10T03:04:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you saying that, say, a [steampunk casemod](http://www.datamancer.net/) isn’t a “device” because the guy didn’t build the electronics himself? because that would be pedantic. Well overall it is clearly a device. And no doubt it fits a certain definition of “steampunk device” as long as it is understood that what that means is “a device that works in the usual way but with steampunk styling”. It all works as long as it is well understood that steampunking is merely decorational frippery and nothing of substance. If one hasn’t fully grokked that, then one gets the wrong impression when one hears of a “steampunk device”. To expand on that, if you read through the first page of this thread, there is a lot of discussion about steampunk harking back to a time when things _actually worked_ via brass gears and pipes and steam and levers etc. I’m the first to admit that I’m so unhip it’s a wonder my arse doesn’t fall off, but when I read through all that stuff and then read of “steampunk devices” I think “devices that work via brass gears and pipes and steam and levers etc”. So when I hear that a device is a “steampunk device” when in reality it is a steampunk device in the same sense as a chicken is Marilyn Munroe if the chicken is wearing a tight white dress and red lipstick, it jars. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/57 "2011-05-10T20:50:36Z")
For some people, steampunk is their prefered form of fantasy. When I was a kid, magic existed. I could wave a wand, and a fairy might appear, or a unicorn. The rainbow lead to a pot of gold and wishes made on a shooting star might come true. The future was going to be full of new technology, which was a lot like magic. The Jettsons had a flying car, and a robot that walked the dog. Star Trek has transporters and communicators. Today, tech comes in plain silver, white or black boxes, with cables connecting them to each other or to me. Rainbows are light refracted throughwater droplets. Steampunk is partially about recapturing a sense of wonder, while still dealing with computers and MP3 players. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/58 "2011-05-10T21:48:48Z")
Is there an element of “what if” in steampunk? “What if” Hannibal brought land battleships (tanks) instead of elephants, that sort of thing. I always thought so. In Johnny Depp’s _Sleepy Hollow_ (1999), his character, Ichabod Crane, pulls out a few odd devices that he uses in his murder investigation. [Sleepy Hollow (1999)](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2254674176/tt0162661) Almost steampunk? In Will Smith’s “Wild Wild West”, does the mechanical spider classify as steampunk? ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/59 "2011-05-10T22:06:46Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Is there an element of “what if” in steampunk? > > “What if” Hannibal brought land battleships (tanks) instead of elephants, that sort of thing. I always thought so. > > In Johnny Depp’s _Sleepy Hollow_ (1999), his character, Ichabod Crane, pulls out a few odd devices that he uses in his murder investigation. [Sleepy Hollow (1999)](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2254674176/tt0162661) Almost steampunk? > > In Will Smith’s “Wild Wild West”, does the mechanical spider classify as steampunk? Yes to both those questions. The whole Wild Wild West movie is chock full of steampunk devices. In Steampunk literature, the ‘what if’ thing is definitely part of it. Generally there has been an industrial revolution in time period, which is very often Victorian ages, but electricity has not been discovered, or simply not utilised. It’s often associated with gothic styles. When I went to the Whitby Goth Weekend (in the UK), I saw a hell of a lot of people wearing Steampunk outfits. It gels well with the corsets and Victorian dress sense. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140/60 "2011-05-10T22:58:09Z")
I’m mildly into Steampunk (I’ve got the mandatory goggles) and in my view it’s just a style of fashion that appeals to some people and gives them a way to be different. I don’t think it’s a reaction to today’s style because a lot of Steampunkers like, for example, the Apple aesthetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-whole-steampunk-phenomenon-a-reaction-to-ubiquitous-digital-technology/581140.md?page=4)