# Is the word "girl" for an adult female human inherently offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362 "2019-01-07T17:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/41 "2019-01-07T19:51:47Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > We could probably use a new informal term for a woman, but that tends not to be the sort of project that goes well. I know someone who was seethingly furious about a waitress asking him and his wife ‘So, what can I get you guys?’ because how _dare_ anyone call his wife a guy, not a _lady_?! Told everyone he knew never to go to that restaurant, complained to the manager, left scathing reviews everywhere, the works. > Yes, he’s pretty old. You talk about a “project”, implying a prescriptive change. But the transition of guy to gender-neutrality in some dialects is a _spontaneous_ change, probably stimulated by lack of adequate vocabulary to reflect modern social sensibilities. It’s the old fart who won’t accept the change who’s advocating a “project” to proscribe it, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/42 "2019-01-07T19:53:57Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Really? In what region/dialect/age group? I don’t think I’ve _ever_ heard this. I was about to post the same as well, although I can’t think of a dialect. My guy feeling is it’s about equal to “hunk” but I might be wrong. At any rate, moving beyond physical attraction and to the romantic, “boy/baby” and “girl/baby” seem to be used fairly gender-equally to describe an actual or potential intimate partner. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/43 "2019-01-07T19:54:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ever heard of “Girls Night Out” or “Chick Flick”? > > Women use those terms all the time so it can depend on context. Your ideas intrigue me and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/44 "2019-01-07T19:58:56Z")
Girl and Boy are used differently than Girls and Boys. Saying, “Tell that girl, Cindy, to come up here” is very different than saying “Tell the girls in Accounts Payable they can go home an hour early today.” You don’t refer to a single adult man as a boy, but you can have a boys night out, or the boys in the machine shop. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/45 "2019-01-07T19:59:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > At any rate, moving beyond physical attraction and to the romantic, “boy/baby” and “girl/baby” seem to be used fairly gender-equally to describe an actual or potential intimate partner. Yes, “my baby” is certainly used by women to refer to a male partner. What I’m questioning is the use of “a babe” to describe an attractive man. I’ve never heard that, and although I’m older I would have thought it would have come up in TV/movies. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/46 "2019-01-07T20:10:30Z")
Unless the gender of the person working a given post is germane, why bother specifying it at all? “I’ll check with the front desk.” “I’ll ask the receptionist.” “Tell HR they can go home an hour early, would you?” Just drop the gender OUT–in a business context it’s almost always unnecessary, and if you need to specify a person, use their damned name. “Check with Bob at the front desk.” “Go see Ms. Smith in HR.” “You’ll want to ask Cindy about that, she’s the one who handles it.” The jobs aren’t gendered, so don’t bother specifying the gender of the person doing the job. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/47 "2019-01-07T20:27:53Z")
It depends on the context, I say. That’s why I, a male, said no. I recall a self-help drop-in program where one individual said something like "boy-girl-boy-girl-boy… " about a seating arrangement. An older woman (?) who was a supervisor at the time, chided her for calling grown women girls. Of course the context made it equivalent to “male-female-male-…” I can just imagine how much louder the complaint had a male present said that… Naturally, the older party was the very epitome of maturity. :rolleyes: She seemed to have problems with all men there, regardless of how excruciatingly compliant-versus- assertive or aggressive. The director was having an affair with her and would never have terminated her, no matter what, since he had a “must obey mama” complex. When a new director replaced him she realized that she no longer had the insurance against firing. She then solemnly promised to be compliant herself. But within a few months she was constantly after a man who had also been as supervisor (maybe still had been). He played it cool and said nothing himself but others relayed the abuse, and she was finally set free. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/48 "2019-01-07T20:31:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Should [all these songs](https://www.ranker.com/list/the-best-songs-with-girl-in-the-title/ranker-music), for example, be modified to say “woman” to be inoffensive? Gwen Stephani needs to sing _Hollaback Woman_, Madonna _Material Woman_, Paula Abdul _Forever Your Woman_, Katie Perry _I Kissed a Woman_, Christina Aguilera _What a Woman Wants_, Pink _Most Women_, etc.? Are adult human females who use the term “girl” to describe other adult human females wrong, and in need of correction? > > (Inspired by a tangent on [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868520) thread.) I don’t think these are great examples because (to my ears at least) these conjure up images of very young women who are referring to themselves. Not a bad question, though. The only time I’ve ever heard it used in an inappropriate way is the example that’s already been given;in the Mad Men,1960s sense. And even then, I’m not sure if it was IRL or on some tv show. I’m not usually too sensitive / observant about these kind of things but I work in a giant (southern) old boys’ (ha!) network so from now on I’ll keep my ears open and see if it crops up. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/49 "2019-01-07T20:34:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Really? In what region/dialect/age group? I don’t think I’ve _ever_ heard this. UK. Mid 30s, but it’s not new here. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a guy called a ‘hunk’ in anything other than a somewhat dismissive or sarcastic manner here, ‘Seen Emma’s new hunk? Brains like a bullock’. On the other hand, ‘Seen the new barman? Total babe’ would be utterly unremarkable. The fact that deliberately _trying_ to change the language, or add words as an ‘equal alternative’ just doesn’t work was kinda my point. Even an innocuous attempt to make a word gender neutral can really upset people. It would be very nice if there was another word, but deciding there should be one is when you wind up with stuff like ‘wymyn’. And no one wants that. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/50 "2019-01-07T20:35:41Z")
Well I think it might depend on the context. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/51 "2019-01-07T20:38:39Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Yes, “my baby” is certainly used by women to refer to a male partner. What I’m questioning is the use of “a babe” to describe an attractive man. I’ve never heard that, and although I’m older I would have thought it would have come up in TV/movies. [Here’s a Pinterest page called “Babes” that’s all pics of hot dudes.](https://www.pinterest.com/tatianasafieh/babes/?lp=true) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/52 "2019-01-07T20:40:17Z")
> [@Find\_Friends](#): > > I recall a self-help drop-in program where one individual said something like "boy-girl-boy-girl-boy… " about a seating arrangement. An older woman (?) who was a supervisor at the time, chided her for calling grown women girls. Of course the context made it equivalent to “male-female-male-…” > > I can just imagine how much louder the complaint had a male present said that… Sure, but setting aside your subsequent anecdote about how unbalanced this particular person was… there’s a linguistic phenomenon called [hypercorrection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection), where an awareness of a frequent type of error may lead us to make a change even when it’s not warranted. I think there’s probably a socially-driven kind of hypercorrection at work here, and we may all struggle with it a bit as usage (along with social mores) evolves. But the fact that people may sometimes _hyper_correct does not remotely invalidate the overall principle of correcting _actual_ inappropriate usage. It’s like people whining “political correctness” when someone tells them to stop being a total jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/53 "2019-01-07T20:44:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Here’s a Pinterest page called “Babes” that’s all pics of hot dudes.](https://www.pinterest.com/tatianasafieh/babes/?lp=true) So… as with most things, the explanation is that I’m getting old! ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/54 "2019-01-07T20:49:52Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Context > > Was interviewing a candidate for our group (primarily degreed professionals on a business development team). Candidate was doing extremely well throughout the day…until the end, when he asked if we could get our “girl” to call him a taxi. He was referring to one of our administrative assistants. We passed on him. Oh dear. Not just girl, but your girl. Somebody’s degree program overlooked socialization. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/55 "2019-01-07T21:12:46Z")
It’s incorrect to think that any word is inherently offensive. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/56 "2019-01-07T21:38:24Z")
I voted that yes, it’s offensive. But mostly because as an adult woman, whenever it’s being used towards you is usually meant in a demeaning way. Fwiw, I am a little sensitive about these things and not just this word. A coworker of mine (whom I never met nor spoke with) says “Hey sweetie” every time we pass each other in the hall and I absolutely loathe it. I don’t know his name, his department or anything about him other than he has an awful mustache. So I call him 'Pornstache Guy" to my other female coworkers and they all know who I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/57 "2019-01-07T21:45:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s incorrect to think that any word is inherently offensive. Is that Wittgenstein or Derrida? ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/58 "2019-01-07T21:57:42Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Unless the gender of the person working a given post is germane, why bother specifying it at all? > > “I’ll check with the front desk.” > “I’ll ask the receptionist.” > “Tell HR they can go home an hour early, would you?” > > Just drop the gender OUT–in a business context it’s almost always unnecessary, and if you need to specify a person, use their damned name. > > “Check with Bob at the front desk.” > “Go see Ms. Smith in HR.” > “You’ll want to ask Cindy about that, she’s the one who handles it.” > > The jobs aren’t gendered, so don’t bother specifying the gender of the person doing the job. QFT and because your post was being ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/59 "2019-01-07T22:09:32Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Should [all these songs](https://www.ranker.com/list/the-best-songs-with-girl-in-the-title/ranker-music), for example, be modified to say “woman” to be inoffensive? Gwen Stephani needs to sing _Hollaback Woman_, Madonna _Material Woman_, Paula Abdul _Forever Your Woman_, Katie Perry _I Kissed a Woman_, Christina Aguilera _What a Woman Wants_, Pink _Most Women_, etc.? I’m familiar with most (but not all) of those songs, and you may wish to reconsider the message of those songs if you want to view that as a convincing argument that “girl” is always/often a value-neutral term. For example, “Hollaback Girl” is a song about a cheerleader who doesn’t want to be disrespected by people talking about her. In this context, the idea of being a hollaback girl is a BAD thing, which falls in line with the use of the term “girl” to diminish the female being talked about. Also, “What a Girl Wants” is about someone who wants a man who will be the boss in a relationship. Again, this falls in line with the idea that the singer is a grown-up who makes her own choices. Have you really not thought about this, OP? ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/60 "2019-01-07T22:40:34Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Parallelism is definitely important here. Referring to “men” and “girls” is inappropriate, unless you are actually referring to “adult male human beings” and “non-adult female human beings”. Is it appropriate to refer to a female human being as a “girl”? Well, in that particular context, would it be appropriate to refer to a human being of the opposite sex as a “boy”? If not, don’t call a female human being a “girl”. And “boy” can also be very fraught, especially in the singular, and most especially when mixed with race. (But even between two adult white males, “Don’t mess with me, boy” is obviously dismissive at best.) > > But sometimes, even in very traditional uses, “boy” _is_ used for “adult male human being”, in an informal, often affectionate, and non-demeaning way: > > “Poker night with the boys.” “C’mon boys, let’s show 'em!” “Attaboy!” “Old boys club”. > > Throwing in “guys” instead of “boys” as a parallel to “girls” (or “gals”) means there are even more situations which are symmetrical. So, as is so often the case, “it depends”. But note that most of these uses are including the speaker, with the one exception - “Attaboy” - being the word specifically praising the person being referenced. OTOH, (men) how would you feel if an authority figure called you “boy”? That’s almost invariably used to tell you that you are a child to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362.md?page=4)