# Is the word "girl" for an adult female human inherently offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362 "2019-01-07T17:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/121 "2019-01-10T19:00:46Z")
No word is “inherently” anything. Context always matters. Words are arbitrary combinations of sounds that accumulate connotations through use. How people use a word creates meaning. If “girl” has a sufficient history of use that undermines the status of adult women in society, then that is a reason to avoid it, not because of any inherent characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/122 "2019-01-10T22:01:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The parallel fails, because “guy” or “dude” aren’t informal terms for a young man. They’re informal terms for a man of any age. What would you informally call an old woman? Is there any reason you can’t use the same term for a young woman? You appear to miss my point. What I’m actually saying is that there is no female equivalent to “guy” or “dude.” And so “girl” has evolved to fill that place. “Girl” is both the female version of “boy” and of “guy.” “Gal” didn’t take off. And “dudette” is surfer lingo. I do argue this lexical gap is because women were historically infantilized. But I can’t force the existence of a new word to fill in the gap. I have to accept that “girl” will be used in contexts where “guy” would be used for a man. That said, in this particular instance, there’s precedent for using a more formal term than usual for service jobs. I’ve heard people say the “mail lady” or the “beer lady.” So I think the better term for this situation is “Fiji Water lady.” But I don’t get too upset at “Fiji Water girl,” either, as that is the current English-language female equivalent to “Fiji Water guy.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/123 "2019-01-10T23:10:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve heard people say the “mail lady” or the “beer lady.” “Beer lady”? “Beer lady”? You heard someone refer to another human being as a “beer lady”? Details please, I’m laughing out loud imagining possible explanations.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/124 "2019-01-11T02:29:04Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “Beer lady”? > “Beer lady”? > > You heard someone refer to another human being as a “beer lady”? > > Details please, I’m laughing out loud imagining possible explanations.🙂 Thailand has beer girls. They hang out in regular – not brothel-type – pubs and restaurants promoting certain brands of beer. They will be dressed in the colors of the brand. Some examples can be seen [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22beer+girls%22+thailand&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQgb-X1uTfAhUlHDQIHc2eDNwQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1366&bih=654). Every Japanese baseball game has beer girls running through the stands topping up spectators’ glasses. Info [here](https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/at-japanese-baseball-games-beer-salesgirls-pour-brews-for-fans-from-kegs-strapped-to-their-backs/). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/125 "2019-01-11T03:03:25Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thailand has beer girls. They hang out in regular – not brothel-type – pubs and restaurants promoting certain brands of beer. They will be dressed in the colors of the brand. Some examples can be seen [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22beer+girls%22+thailand&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQgb-X1uTfAhUlHDQIHc2eDNwQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1366&bih=654). > > Every Japanese baseball game has beer girls running through the stands topping up spectators’ glasses. Info [here](https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/at-japanese-baseball-games-beer-salesgirls-pour-brews-for-fans-from-kegs-strapped-to-their-backs/). I think I’d still rather go with Duffman. ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/126 "2019-01-11T04:16:59Z")
Context is everything, but overall, you should address people by their name, or whatever is most proper for the social situation. I don’t want anyone calling me boy, or dude – offensive is not the right term though. I would feel annoyed and disrespected. Call me by my name, or if you don’t know my name, ask me what it is. I would say that when in doubt (ie., if you haven’t already established that the person will or won’t take offense) simply call them by their name. Why even mess around? I don’t get it? Why make this so complicated? People, whoever they are, may prefer being addressed in certain way. Other forms of address, offensive or not, would not be preferable to using the preferred way of addressing someone. Ma’am or Miz, or Mrs. for a woman during formal occasions, First name for informal, etc. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/127 "2019-01-11T12:05:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thailand has beer girls. They hang out in regular – not brothel-type – pubs and restaurants promoting certain brands of beer. They will be dressed in the colors of the brand. Some examples can be seen [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22beer+girls%22+thailand&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQgb-X1uTfAhUlHDQIHc2eDNwQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1366&bih=654). > > Every Japanese baseball game has beer girls running through the stands topping up spectators’ glasses. Info [here](https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/at-japanese-baseball-games-beer-salesgirls-pour-brews-for-fans-from-kegs-strapped-to-their-backs/). Yes, the US has [beverage promotional girls.](http://miller-lite-girls.weebly.com/) who do promo work for the big national labels. _Nobody_ would ever refer to them as “beer ladies”. Craft breweries like to deride the national breweries over this. A local brewery sent a beer-boy to a beer event. He was an overweight dude in a bathing suit and flip flops who was very knowledgeable about beer and very funny as well. The line to get a picture with him was longer than the beer-girl picture lines. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/128 "2019-01-14T08:50:51Z")
For the OP, I’ve made a conscious effort to think and use woman instead of girl for adult females, though I still might slip up from time to time. > [@Babale](#): > > When women are actually fully in power - like some of the female pharaohs, or a few other monarchs throughout history - they tend to keep the same title. Even if people refer to them as “queens” in day to day speech, their legal title is identical. So however Context chooses to identify, they are legally a monarch holding the position of king 😛 I think King Elizabeth would disagree with you. What you are showing is a manifestation of patriarchy, where the office is assumed to be male because, duh, men are the ones who hold power. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > \*Using “female” and “male” as nouns can also be offensive, _in some contexts_. I tend to associate it with “police-speak”, and it can be racially charged, although obviously that isn’t always the case: Single White Male, Single White Female, and so on. Say what? Offensive? > [@minor7flat5](#): > > This is one of those places where an old guy seems less offensive than a younger guy. > > I remember old bosses who would make a comment like “I’ll check with the girl at the front desk” or something like that, and it flew right under the radar and seemed like something old guys say. > > But unless you are nearing retirement age, it sounds offensive without without very specific context. No, it sounds offensive either way. If you’re 92, I may let it pass with a chuckle and a pat on the head, old boy. > [@Chronos](#): > > Since it was my comment that prompted this, I’ll weigh in: There are contexts where it’s not offensive, which are basically the same contexts where it’d be inoffensive to refer to an adult male as a “boy”. But in most contexts, it would be considered out of place to use “boy”, but nonetheless still common, for some reason, to use “girl”. Since the offensive contexts are more common than the inoffensive ones, I answered “inherently offensive” in the poll. Agreed. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Also, “What a Girl Wants” is about someone who wants a man who will be the boss in a relationship. Again, this falls in line with the idea that the singer is a grown-up who makes her own choices. I don’t see that from the lyrics. [https://genius.com/amp/Christina-aguilera-what-a-girl-wants-lyrics](https://genius.com/amp/Christina-aguilera-what-a-girl-wants-lyrics) She wants a man who will be by her side and support her while she is a bit lost, one who will be faithful. But be the boss? Not seeing it. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Data point of 1, but: diminutives amongst dudes is more often than not a positive thing hinting at an avuncular bond. I’ve never taken exception to it. I’ve only been in the presence of a handful of women with authority over me (2 army officers, 1 bank manager), curiously they all dropped a “boy” on me at one time or another. How it felt is difficult to describe because I don’t know the womany version of avuncular. Materteral [https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/materteral](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/materteral) > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Next you’ll be telling me that if a pregnant girl in a group of one million such people goes into labor and ives birth to a baby boy, it is okay to call that “a group of men.” Um, what? > [@BigT](#): > > Your examples are acceptable examples. “Hollaback Girl”'s lyrics are “I ain’t no holla back girl,” saying bad things about considering a woman just to be a last-ditch fuck buddy. Huh? > [@](#): > > Still, I could see someone arguing that all such language ultimately comes from the male infantilizing of attractive women. I think it’s more of robbing women of authority. > [@Melbourne](#): > > That influences my thinking on other examples of attempted thought control by language manipulation: if “girl” is offensive, it’s because the group it refers to is low-status or broken. You can’t fix that by adopting a different word. This is a different case. They’re using the low status term to rob women of their status. > [@Haldurson](#): > > I don’t want anyone calling me boy, or dude – offensive is not the right term though. I would feel annoyed and disrespected. A distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362/129 "2019-01-14T11:28:42Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Say what? Offensive? Referring to a man as “a male” or a woman or women as “a female” or “females” is associated with police and military jargon and I perceive it as tending to be objectifying and dehumanizing. The most jarring contexts are when a young black man is referred to as a “young black male” because that’s a common way to hear cops describe a criminal suspect. And when men “on the prowl” start referring to “females,” it feels very creepy and objectifying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-girl-for-an-adult-female-human-inherently-offensive/827362.md?page=6)