# Is the Word 'Pederasty' Outdated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810 "2011-05-05T04:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/1 "2011-05-05T04:51:52Z")
Maybe some of you could help me, I am looking for a word. It refers to men who molest little girls, but also could just refer to men who have sex with women. Ridiculous, no? Yet that basically what pederast means. It is a man who has sex with little boys, but could also refer to a man who has sex with men. I know the term is still in use too. I read Dr. Ruth Westheimer’s _Sex For Dummies_ a few years back. And she uses the term. Dr. Ruth, the term is **pedophile**. That word **alone** should suffice for most of the times the word pederast/y is used, even today. If you want to be more specific, say “homosexual pedophile”. But I think pedophile is enough. What do the rest of you think:)? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/2 "2011-05-05T05:13:31Z")
“Pederast” pretty much exclusively refers to a man who has sex with boys/adolescents and not a man who has sex with grown men. And I checked “Sex for Dummies”, and Dr. Ruth specifically distinguishes pederasty and homosexuality. She had just finished talking about rape, incest and sexual abuse, and she mentioned NAMBLA. She goes on to say: > [@](#): > > The men who make up NAMBLA (the organization that asserts that men should have a right to have sex with boys) are pederasts, a variation of homosexuals who enjoy seducing young boys more than adult men. Most homosexuals are not pederasts, yet they all seem to share the blame, even if their sexual behavior is among consenting adults. Is that fair? > > Before you heterosexuals answer that question, I want you to answer another question. Do you take the blame for all the heterosexual men who seduce young girls? Or what about all the heterosexual fathers, uncles, or brothers who commit incest with young girls in their family? Does that have anything to do with your having sex with a consenting adult heterosexual? No, right? Then why should the state care what too consenting homosexual men or lesbian women do behind closed doors? So, she’s making it explicit that most gay men aren’t attracted to boys, just as most straight men aren’t attracted to girls, and she’s condemning the assumption that they are. I don’t see anything really out of line there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/3 "2011-05-05T05:19:15Z")
“Pederast” has always been defined as sex between a man and a boy that I have seen. Are we arguing definitions here? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/4 "2011-05-05T05:23:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > “Pederast” has always been defined as sex between a man and a boy that I have seen. > > Are we arguing definitions here? [This](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pederasty) is all I could find for now: > [@](#): > > **pederasty, paederasty** > a sexual act between two males, **especially** when one is a minor. Emphasis mine, but note the word “ **especially** ”. Anyways, I know the term can be used that way. If I find more, I will post it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/5 "2011-05-05T05:36:29Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > [This](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pederasty) is all I could find for now: > Emphasis mine, but note the word “ **especially** ”. Anyways, I know the term can be used that way. If I find more, I will post it. So are you saying that, technically, Bob and Jim who are both 35 years old and consenting to sexual relations with each other are pederasts? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/6 "2011-05-05T05:44:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So are you saying that, technically, Bob and Jim who are both 35 years old and consenting to sexual relations with each other are pederasts? No, _ **I** _ certainly wouldn’t say it. But going by the literal definition, basically _yes_. If it’s any help, I read recently online that the term was used esp. in the 19th Century that way ([here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty) is an interesting Wiki article that talks about that a little). You realize the implication is that it is all the same–so basically, yes, it is a homophobic usage. But I have sometimes encountered it used that way even today. FWIW, I once read an Esperanto dictionary by a British guy where he uses the Esperanto term for pederasty that way. Anyways, as I said, if I find more, I will certainly post it. Remember, this use is rather rare. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/7 "2011-05-05T06:04:56Z")
My question is, is there really a reason to single out male-on-male pedophiles? And, if so, why is there no word for male-on-female, female-on-male, or female-on-female? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/8 "2011-05-05T06:15:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, if so, why is there no word for male-on-female, female-on-male, or female-on-female? At a guess: because the culture which gave us the word pederast didn’t encourage or value those. Note that the words pederast and pedophiles are not synonymous: a pederast engages in sex with male adolescents. A pedophile engages in sex with strictly prepubescent children. Whether that makes a difference or not is in the eye of the beholder - obviously some felt a distinction was called for. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/9 "2011-05-05T10:07:27Z")
Another distinction is that a pederast actually does it; a paedophile can be someone who thinks about it but restrains herself. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/10 "2011-05-05T19:42:03Z")
Sometimes words are just like that. Is there a word for male lolita or nymphet? I blame Nabokov. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/11 "2011-05-05T20:50:30Z")
FWIW, I’ve seen the word used in older texts to mean simply “homosexual” without either of the people involved being minors, or even simply to mean one who engages in anal sex, without even reference to the genders of the people involved. I won’t link, since I don’t want to cause anyone any awkward talks with their boss at work, but using google books to search for the word pederast in texts earlier then 1900 gives plenty of examples. Indeed, just skimming through, the more modern use of the word to mean a pedophile doesn’t seem to have been very common at all a century ago. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/12 "2011-05-05T22:20:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > At a guess: because the culture which gave us the word pederast didn’t encourage or value those. > > Note that the words pederast and pedophiles are not synonymous: a pederast engages in sex with male adolescents. A pedophile engages in sex with strictly prepubescent children. Whether that makes a difference or not is in the eye of the beholder - obviously some felt a distinction was called for. This is wrong. A pedophile is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. An [ephebophile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia) is sexually attracted to those that are barely past puberty. Both words have to do with sexual attraction, not actual sex. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/13 "2011-05-05T22:28:10Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Is there a word for male lolita or nymphet? Teenager. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/14 "2011-05-05T23:56:24Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Maybe some of you could help me, I am looking for a word. It refers to men who molest little girls, but also could just refer to men who have sex with women… The term I would recommend is “heterosexual man”. Of course, the majority of heterosexual men do not molest little girls. > [@Jim\_B](#): > > … > Ridiculous, no? Yet that basically what pederast means. It is a man who has sex with little boys, but could also refer to a man who has sex with men. > … No it doesn’t. Pederast means pedophile. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/15 "2011-05-06T00:41:48Z")
Wasn’t “pederast” used as a catch-all phrase until fairly recently? As in charging even two consenting adults (usually men) with “the crime against nature?” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/16 "2011-05-06T00:51:02Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Wasn’t “pederast” used as a catch-all phrase until fairly recently? As in charging even two consenting adults (usually men) with “the crime against nature?” That’s usually “sodomy”, not “pederasty”. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/17 "2011-05-06T01:17:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That’s usually “sodomy”, not “pederasty”. Again, do a google book search for uses of the term prior to 1900. Its pretty clear it was being used as a synonym for sodomy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/18 "2011-05-06T05:25:17Z")
Ok, so in the 19th century, you’re right. It was being used as a synonym for sodomy. But it doesn’t seem to be used that way anymore. Modern usage of the term seems to be restrained to homosexual pedophiles. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/19 "2011-05-06T20:53:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Ok, so in the 19th century, you’re right. It was being used as a synonym for sodomy. But it doesn’t seem to be used that way anymore. Modern usage of the term seems to be restrained to homosexual pedophiles. Well, I’m an old guy and not too familiar with current usage. Plus, a lot of my reading dates back quite a few years. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-word-pederasty-outdated/580810/20 "2011-05-07T13:58:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > At a guess: because the culture which gave us the word pederast didn’t encourage or value those. > > Note that the words pederast and pedophiles are not synonymous: a pederast engages in sex with male adolescents. A pedophile engages in sex with strictly prepubescent children. Whether that makes a difference or not is in the eye of the beholder - obviously some felt a distinction was called for. Huh. I never thought about the culture it came from. I’ve only encountered the term as a negative term. I actually didn’t realize it came directly from the Greco-Roman practice. And I only learned about that after reading Shakespeare’s _Julius Caesar_.