# Is there a case that Jesus didn't believe in his own divinity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759 "2024-04-25T21:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/81 "2024-04-29T20:51:51Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That does raise the question: why that reaction for this would-be political messiah and not for any of the others? He wasn’t the only one, just the only one that stuck, is my guess. Here’s a fairly similar story from later on: > **[Sabbateans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbateans)** > > The Sabbateans (or Sabbatians) were a variety of Jewish followers, disciples, and believers in Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), > a Sephardic Jewish rabbi and Kabbalist who was proclaimed to be the Jewish Messiah in 1666 by Nathan of Gaza. > Vast numbers of Jews in the Jewish diaspora accepted his claims, even after he outwardly became an apostate due to his forced conversion to Islam in the same year. Sabbatai Zevi's followers, both during his proclaimed messiahship and after his forced conversion to Isl... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/82 "2024-04-29T21:27:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > That does raise the question: why that reaction for this would-be political messiah and not for any of the others? > > I don’t think Aslan tries to answer that particular question I think you need to consider not only what Jesus did, but also, what his followers did after his death, to answer that question. I kinda suspect that Paul was incredibly effective. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/83 "2024-04-29T21:55:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > That does raise the question: why that reaction for this would-be political messiah and not for any of the others? > > He wasn’t the only one, just the only one that stuck, is my guess. > > Here’s a fairly similar story from later on: Even today, there is Hasidic Judaism in Israel and the United States. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/84 "2024-04-29T23:47:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t think Aslan tries to answer that particular question – he deals with the question of **what** the historical Jesus was, not **why** he became the center of Christianity, although Aslan does cite the Nicene Creed, adopted by the First Council of Nicaea in 325, as a pivotal factor in the establishment of Christianity. I don’t think any of the others were remembered for 325 years, or anywhere near that. ETA: Sabbatai Zevi was a lot later. > [@wolfpup](#): > > I would venture to guess that perhaps Jesus became the center of Christian mythology because he was more effective than the other messiahs at attracting a following, and thus become more well known and consequently the subject of particularly ruthless persecution by the Romans. The first question seems to me to be why the word changed meaning, from a human political leader backed by God to some divine being considered to be God or to be part of God in a different sense than the universe and all humans might be considered to be part of God. The other “messiahs” may have been miracle workers, but they were would-be messiahs in the Jewish sense of the term; which does not include being divine. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think you need to consider not only what Jesus did, but also, what his followers did after his death, to answer that question. I kinda suspect that Paul was incredibly effective. Yeah. It’s quite possible that what we have is Paulism; not anything based on Jesus. > [@DPRK](#): > > Even today, there is Hasidic Judaism in Israel and the United States. I might be wrong; but I don’t think any of the Hasidic rabbis have claimed to be God. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/85 "2024-04-29T23:59:45Z")
Not God, but, > **[Chabad messianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism)** > > Messianism in Chabad refers to the contested beliefs among some members of the Chabad-Lubavitch community—a group within Hasidic Judaism—regarding the Jewish messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, mashiach or moshiach). Very few members of the Chabad community believe that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the deceased seventh Rebbe of the Chabad-Lubavitch dynasty, is still alive but most believe that he is the Messiah.: 24  The issue remains controversial within both the Chabad movement The concept of the m... ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/86 "2024-04-30T00:07:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > From a historical perspective, which is more where i am coming from, i think Jesus was a real person who sparked a real movement, and i think it’s incredibly unlikely he believed he was divine. Whenever you say “incredibly unlikely” regarding the life of the historical Jesus, I’m inclined to argue for the other side. Not out of obstinacy, but because Christianity before Paul is very difficult to determine. Paul was Jewish, and preached to gentiles. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s no record of any dispute at the time that Jesus was divine. And Paul disputed a lot. (Counter argument: well, part of his audience may have figured that we all are divine, and brushed the argument under the carpet.) Beyond that, the gospel of Mark is full of miracles, performed by Jesus. So the foundation is pretty divine-adjacent. (Counterpoint: Jesus seemed to indicate at times that the miracles sprung from faith.) Then there is the puzzle/miracle of moving boulders following Jesus’ crucifixion. * * * Separately, if you accept John then it follows that Jesus believed himself to be divine and Mark, Luke, and Matthew didn’t get the full memo. The I Am series is unique to John. My take is that the 4 gospels claim that they are delivering the good news, not eyewitness news. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/87 "2024-04-30T00:19:35Z")
Still not divine. Even the people who think he’ll be physically resurrected aren’t saying that he’s God, but that God can resurrect dead humans. But maybe relevant to the question of why Jesus drew followers after his death when other failed messiahs of his time didn’t: because Schneerson continued to have and still has some claiming that he’s the messiah (in the human sense) while other Rabbis, including other Hasidic Rabbis, don’t. Some unusually high level of charisma in the individual, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/88 "2024-04-30T00:54:39Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Paul was Jewish, and preached to gentiles. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s no record of any dispute at the time that Jesus was divine. And Paul disputed a lot. (Counter argument: well, part of his audience may have figured that we all are divine, and brushed the argument under the carpet.) Yes, it’s standard Jewish doctrine that we are all created in the image of God, and all have a divine spark. This would not have been controversial. And there’s a lot of evidence that there were disputes about Jesus being the same as the One God. Witness the council of Nicaea, which specifically ruled on the point because it was in dispute. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Beyond that, the gospel of Mark is full of miracles, performed by Jesus. So the foundation is pretty divine-adjacent. (Counterpoint: Jesus seemed to indicate at times that the miracles sprung from faith.) Then there is the puzzle/miracle of moving boulders following Jesus’ crucifixion. As mentioned several times, many Jewish prophets are associated with miracles. Moses performed more miracles than Jesus. Heck, his big sister carried around a magic staff that created potable water at her command, all through the desert. But no one claims that any of the other prophets are themselves divine. Just touched by God. (And there are lots of faith healers today, who aren’t generally taken to be divine. ) I find it weird that people take the miracles as proof that Jesus was, himself, God. I think that Judaism has grown apart from Christianity in some ways, as the two groups tried to distinguish themselves from each other. But the stories of Jewish miracle-workers (none of whom anyone claims to be divine) are really old, and Jesus would have been familiar with them and grown up in a culture where everyone knew about them. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/89 "2024-04-30T04:48:41Z")
[puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal): I find your take plausible. Paul proselytizes to pagans and in the process the understanding of Jesus’ relationship with the Father shifted. But I find lots of takes plausible. Evidence on the other side is a lack of evidence of disagreement during Paul’s lifetime. The book of Acts outlines a lot of controversies between Paul and Peter but not this one (AFAIK). Agree that this became a big issue some 300 years later and I furthermore assert that the concept of the Trinity was a political compromise. But there’s a big jump from c 20-66 CE to 325 CE. Counterpoint: Diogenes the Cynic, a former poster here, was unimpressed by my lack of contemporary evidence arguments - the fall of the Temple was so disruptive to the Jewish community that to Diogenes you couldn’t even definitely confirm the existence of Jesus. I used to think the idea that Jesus never existed to be ludicrous, but now I’m in the probably-not-but-can’t-rule-it-out camp. The writings of Paul are the only lighthouse in the storm: I’m not sure about the historical Jesus but I can attempt to impute a little about what Paul believed Jesus to be. And further scholarship could uncover more. It might be weird for a Jew to think he’s related to the Father in 25 CE, but if so this phased neither Peter nor Paul, nor apparently anyone else at the time. As far as the (highly limited and highly redacted) record shows. Knotty. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/90 "2024-04-30T05:01:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Yeah. It’s quite possible that what we have is Paulism; not anything based on Jesus. The Gospels are, but to many so-called “Christians” ignore the love of Jesus and focus on the hate and intolerance of paul. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Diogenes the Cynic He used to cite himself Apparently the site he was constantly linking to as a Cite was primarily written by him. I am sure about the Historical Jesus. Historical records of that area and time are sorely lacking- take Pontius Pilate - > **[Pontius Pilate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate)** > > Pontius Pilate\[b\] (Latin: Pontius Pilatus; Greek: Πόντιος Πιλᾶτος, Pontios Pilatos) was the fifth governor of the Roman province of Judaea, serving under Emperor Tiberius from 26/27 to 36/37 AD. He is best known for being the official who presided over the trial of Jesus and ultimately ordered his crucifixion. Pilate's importance in Christianity is underscored by his prominent place in both the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds. Because the gospels portray Pilate as reluctant to execute Jesus, the E _Although Pilate is the best-attested governor of Judaea, few sources regarding his rule have survived. Nothing is known about his life before he became governor of Judaea, and nothing is known about the circumstances that led to his appointment to the governorship.[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#cite_note-FOOTNOTESchwartz1992398L%C3%A9monon2007121-11) Coins that he minted have survived from Pilate’s governorship, as well as a single inscription, the so-called [Pilate stone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_stone)._… _In effect, the inscription constitutes the earliest surviving, and only contemporary, record of Pilate, who is otherwise known from the [New Testament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#Trial_and_execution_of_Jesus) and [apocryphal texts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#New_Testament_Apocrypha), the Jewish historian [Josephus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus) and writer [Philo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo), and brief references by Roman historians such as [Tacitus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus)._ Note of course that The NT, Josephus and Tacitus are also sources for the Historical Jesus. It wasnt until 1961 and the finding of the Pilate Stone, that historians were sure he was real. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/91 "2024-04-30T13:05:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For instance, if even just one of the many miracles in those books happened, then Jesus had strong legit reason to believe he was God or some special agent of God. If a man could actually, in fact, resurrect people from the dead, calm a storm with a rebuke, or turn water into wine, or make a little bit of bread and fish suddenly multiply to feed 5,000 people, then he has perfectly valid reason to think, “Wow, I’m not some mere mortal.” And everyone around him would have valid reason to believe as well. Why? Doesn’t the Bible feature Not-Some-Mere-Mortal feats performed by people who are neither God nor a special agent of God — such that Deuteronomy specifically warns against hearkening unto such prophets and wonder workers, and such that Revelation involves such magic playing out in front of the folks of the future — just like the magicians of Egypt repeatedly ‘did so with their enchantments’ in front of the folks of the past? And — if we take the story of Jesus at face value — isn’t Jesus said to have made a blind man see, at which point contemporary onlookers said, _meh, couldn’t that just be Beelzebub at work?_ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/92 "2024-04-30T13:24:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Doesn’t the Bible feature Not-Some-Mere-Mortal feats performed by people who are neither God nor a special agent of God, such that Deuteronomy specifically warns against hearkening unto such prophets and wonder workers, and such that Revelation involves magic playing out in front of the folks of the future, just like the magicians of Egypt repeatedly ‘did so with their enchantments’ in front of the folks of the past? Yes, when setting out all the laws it starts by saying “Here are all the laws; mever add to or remove from this - this is it. Prophets will give you guidance on applying it but this will not change”. It even specifically warns, they will make predictions that come true, they will perform miracles - but if they tell you that you no longer have to follow the word of God, they are false prophets. Also, in Jeremiah, the titular Jeremiah calls out a false prophet who claimed that God would free Israel from their current overlords, and God tells him: “All the old prophets gave bad news, they warned you about death and destruction if you did not obey me. If you get a prophet who gives _good_ news, like that Israel will be freed, should be doubted _unless and until_ the good news he promised actually happens”. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/93 "2024-05-01T23:27:42Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But we could say that of anything attributed to Jesus, right? Doesn’t the question in the OP assume (just for purposes of discussion) that all the Jesus quotes are accurate and given that, could one argue that Jesus did not assert his own divinity? To clarify, I didn’t necessarily assume all the Jesus quotes are accurate. I’m pretty interested in which ones were more likely to be accurate. My understanding is that John is pretty far out there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/94 "2024-05-02T03:55:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > My understanding is that John is pretty far out there. John was one of Jesus’s disciples. OTOH, it was written when he was very old, and almost certainly dictated to a secretary\* and likely edited by John’s followers. John likely had Q or one of the other Gospels to work from. - this one of the stupid things that piss me off “John couldnt have written that Gospel as he was a semi-literate worker”. Yep, John was- when he was 20 or so at the time of the Crucifiction- likely no more than semi-literate. But that Gospel came out around AD 90 , when John was an old man. Is it that impossible for a man to learn to read after decades of being a holy leader of men? besides- almost no-one actually wrote their own stuff- not even Caesar(although he could have)- they dictated to secretaries. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/95 "2024-05-02T04:21:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > John likely had Q or one of the other Gospels to work from. Why would John, being one of Jesus’s disciples and therefore an actual witness, need Q or one of the other Gospels to work from? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/96 "2024-05-02T04:25:26Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Why would John, being one of Jesus’s disciples and therefore an actual witness, need Q or one of the other Gospels to work from? This is a really bad question, since you clearly didnt read-_it was written when he was very old,_ or are you just being snarky? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/97 "2024-05-02T04:41:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m pretty interested in which ones were more likely to be accurate. There’s a book devoted to that topic entitled, [The Five Gospels](https://www.westarinstitute.org/product/the-five-gospels) (1993) by the [Jesus Seminar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar) which I recommend. It’s easy to flip through and I often pull it out when discussing Christianity in GD. > [@DrDeth](#): > > John likely had Q or one of the other Gospels to work from. This is a contentious issue, but that’s not my understanding. Here’s a diagram from The Five Gospels: [![](https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/112/369/632/263/230/551/original/7fd563ea8f5bc3eb.png) ](https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/112/369/632/263/230/551/original/7fd563ea8f5bc3eb.png) The thinking is that John comes out of a different evangelical tradition than Mark-Matthew-Luke/Acts. It’s almost certainly the latest and possibly the best written of the four. There are other diagrams in the book with variant views, those trapezoids present some intentional ambiguity, and -yes- there are plenty of passages where John and the other gospels overlap, but a comparison between the texts shows John to be somewhere off on the side I think. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/98 "2024-05-02T12:34:25Z")
Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but wasn’t there some heresy about Jesus being both human & divine? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/99 "2024-05-02T13:09:18Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > wasn’t there some heresy about Jesus being both human & divine? You’re gonna need to be more specific. I think there were various heresies claiming Jesus was everything from fully mortal to dully divine, with various flavors for any combination you can think of (and some you, or at least I, can’t even comprehend). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759/100 "2024-05-02T15:04:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Why would John, being one of Jesus’s disciples and therefore an actual witness, need Q or one of the other Gospels to work from? I’m over 70. If I were to produce a historical record of something that happened when I was in my 20’s, I would most certainly want to consult other sources as well as my own memory. Admittedly, these days, I’d also cite them. But I don’t think that was common at the time. I’m dubious about the accuracy, let alone the word-for-word accuracy, of the quotes in the Gospels. But I’m not dubious about why an eyewitness, writing (or dictating) some 60 years later, might want to consult other sources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-case-that-jesus-didnt-believe-in-his-own-divinity/1000759.md?page=6)