# Is there a contemporary family with a greater number of notable members \[than the Gracies\]? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537 "2011-01-05T21:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/61 "2011-01-07T01:12:12Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The fact that Rillian Gracie has the “absolute best guard in the sport” is no doubt notable to the handful of people who follow the sport closely, but does having the best guard in an obscure sport really make him noteworthy? Sure, why not? As far as I’m concerned, the Cargills would be a perfectly fine example as well. Cut Cisco some slack. He was asking a simple question about extended families that had achieved some level of relative notoriety or another for whatever reason, and expressly left whatever that reason may be and whatever its reletive importance is up to the reader. In Brazil in particular and in the combat sports world at large the Gracie family is extremely well known, and if they’re completely unknown in the rest of the world, so what? If the various members of the Brown family has dominated the curling scene for the last couple of decades, by all means name them. If somebody from a famous Jai Alai family has the hardest serve in the sport, that’s “notable” to somebody. If half of the [exhaustive list of professional darts players on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_darts_players) are cousins, name them too. I doubt anyone outside North America gives much of a crap about Dale Earnhardt, Sr., Ralph Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt Jr., Kerry Earnhardt, Jeffrey Earnhardt, and Teresa Earnhardt. If someone were to mention their “notability” someone from Europe might rightly point out that Americans who drive in circles aren’t particularly noteworthy as far as they’re concerned, but who cares? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/62 "2011-01-07T01:23:49Z")
Looking it up, the [Cargill family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargill_family) would be a great example. The only argument against the “notability” of the individual members is that they appear to be intensely secretive, understandable for a family of billionaires. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/63 "2011-01-07T02:21:08Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > how many people have actually heard of the Cargills? Outside of those of us interested in agriculture they are compleyte and utter uknowns. Yet they own and control one of the largest agricultural concerns on the planet. Dozens of them are highly successful multi-milionaires and billionaires. They own significant areas of land on 4 continents, according to one source they own more land then the area of Germany and France combined. > > This firm is owned by the family, the family all work in it. Some run these huge ranches and farms, some run other business offshoots. All these people are real players who have done things that are notable in the sense of directly affecting the lives hundreds of millions of people on a daily basis. That would have been a great response before you bent over, spread your buttcheeks, and farted into the thread. > [@Blake](#): > > Yet if I were to claim that the Cargills are all notable, people would look at me funny. Were I to claim that the woman who runs the Cargill phosphate plant in Argentine was “notable” people would laugh at me I have no idea who or why. I would consider them notable and I had never heard of them before your post. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/64 "2011-01-07T03:09:26Z")
The name Sutter\* is pretty notable in Canada – people automatically think of the [Sutter dynasty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutter_family) of hockey fame. Here though? Unless you’re asking hockey fans, most people would just be like, “huh”? And I would guess that most people are more familiar with hockey than Jiu-Jitsu. \*Note: I am not related to the Sutters of NHL fame, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/65 "2011-01-07T03:32:05Z")
Rather than warn any specific posters for attitudes in this thread(which was started in General Questions), I’m moving to IMHO, where everyone can be right and everyone can be wrong. **samclem** MOderator ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/66 "2011-01-07T07:14:12Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The fact that Rillian Gracie has the “absolute best guard in the sport” is no doubt notable to the handful of people who follow the sport closely, but does having the best guard in an obscure sport really make him noteworthy? Because that really is the only claim to fame the guy has. He has done nothing else at all noteworthy. > > If having the best “X” in a narrow and obscure field is noteworthy then almost any family has far more notable members than the Gracies. Where the values of “handful” and “narror and obscure” are tens of thousands minimum, if you’re counting dedicated practitioners of the sport, and millions if you’re counting casual fans. What are you _the best_ in the entire world at? And before you say “scratching my own butt,” let me rephrase that to what are you the best in the entire world at that would make literally thousands of people excited to meet you? You keep making vague references to every other family being more notable than the Gracies (which is hilarious, because apparently in your world they really absolute nobodies-- less than the Joneses next door), but you haven’t elaborated on that. You insist that your family is more notable than the Gracies, but you won’t name them so we can look them up and see for ourselves. In My Humble Opinion, you’re a keyboard warrior who just enjoys cruising for e-fights. I’d be fascinated if you proved me wrong, though. Are you going to tell us your family name? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/67 "2011-01-07T07:27:41Z")
Leaving aside the issue of the notability of the Gracie family, how about the House of Saud? According to Wikipedia, the “inner circle” of the family numbers around 200 members and there’s around 7000 members in the extended family. And I think most people would agree that running a country and a substantial portion of the world’s oil supply is pretty notable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/68 "2011-01-07T07:36:15Z")
I will concede this to the OP. The Gracies are easily the largest professional sports dynasty I’ve ever heard of. Compare them to the Pettys - they’re a big deal in auto racing and there’s only six of them. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/69 "2011-01-07T10:10:46Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > This us one of those times I feel the board is too old and out of touch to debate a subject. ASK ANY American male 18-30 who the Gracies are and what MMA is, and they will know. I’m an American male of 29 and knowing what MMA is (and that BJJ is a popular fighting style in it) is the extent of my knowledge on the subject. And saying the Gracies makes me think of the people who first lived in Gracie Mansion in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/70 "2011-01-07T10:50:31Z")
Anecdotal fame-check for you. I played football last night and asked the 16 players there if anyone had heard of Royce Gracie and what he was “famous” for. (the group is 18-42, mainly UK but other Europeans also and also mad about sport in general). number who knew? 0 For some comparison I asked about Michael Jordan (16) Marvin Hagler (15) Dale Earnhardt (5) Michael Johnson (13) Troy Aikman (6) Mario Andretti (16) No conclusions offered other than for that group at least, he ain’t famous. And by extension not notable either. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/71 "2011-01-07T11:31:26Z")
The Lee family of Virginia should be considered. Richard Henry Lee, General “Light Horse” Harry Lee and five of their immediate relatives were rather pivotal in the Revolution. Robert E. Lee, you may have heard about. The family has produced notables up to the present day, Blair Lee (former governor of Maryland) for one. Another was convicted for some despicable crime or another and tried to get Blair to pull some strings for him. Still, the family home in Alexandria is said to have produced more patriots than any other house in America. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/72 "2011-01-07T12:08:35Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > The family has produced notables up to the present day, Blair Lee (former governor of Maryland) for one. Another was convicted for some despicable crime or another and tried to get Blair to pull some strings for him. After checking the Wiki article on the [Lee Family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_family) it would appear that I have conflated Blair Lee III’s career with that of one of his sons, who was interviewed by a small Maryland newspaper in the late 90s but does not as yet rate his own Wikipedia page (although approximately 30 of his familial forebears have that distinction). Blair Lee III died over 20 years ago. The Lee Family wiki page doesn’t mention the name of the family felon, leading me to suspect that it was authored by a Lee relative who would rather the whole matter disappeared. Still, quite a family legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/73 "2011-01-07T15:18:50Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I’m an American male of 29 and knowing what MMA is (and that BJJ is a popular fighting style in it) is the extent of my knowledge on the subject. And saying the Gracies makes me think of the people who first lived in Gracie Mansion in New York. I’ve been reluctant to say this because I don’t want to encourage this fame hijack, but since it keeps coming up . . . I’m American, male, 29, and I don’t know wtf Lebron James is, other than no one has stfu about him on Facebook for the last year. Still, I’ve gathered the impression that he’s extremely famous, whether I know him or not. Now, I’m not saying the Gracies are on his level of mainstream recognition, but I think, within our demographic, you’re the exception for not knowing them. Not the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/74 "2011-01-07T15:26:20Z")
FYI, LeBron James plays for the NBA. At least in the US, I think it’s safe to say that basketball players are better known than MMA fighters. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/75 "2011-01-07T15:33:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Anecdotal fame-check for you. > No conclusions offered other than for that group at least, he ain’t famous. And by extension not notable either. So fame is the only criterion for notability, huh? Who invented aspirin? Not famous, so not notable, I guess. Who developed binary code? Who designed the qwerty keyboard? Who was Eugene Lauste? Some of you may know the answers to some of these questions, but none of them are household names - certainly none are as important as Blake’s family - so they’re all losers, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/76 "2011-01-07T15:49:43Z")
Cisco, you really need to drop the whole thing about calling out Blake’s family. It’s making you look a little over the top. And you also need to recognize the big picture. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is not the equivalent of inventing aspirin or binary code or being elected President. It’s a minor recreational activity that has a devoted fanbase. But so is scrapbooking. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/77 "2011-01-07T17:04:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Cisco, you really need to drop the whole thing about calling out Blake’s family. It’s making you look a little over the top. Have you considered that maybe he should stop acting like an internet toughguy and saying his family is more notable than a very well-known family, unless he’s going to step up and prove it? I mean, I realize that everyone on the internet is 6’8" with washboard abs and a new Corvette in the driveway, but it doesn’t impress me unless you can back it up. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/78 "2011-01-07T17:18:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Leaving aside the issue of the notability of the Gracie family, how about the House of Saud? According to Wikipedia, the “inner circle” of the family numbers around 200 members and there’s around 7000 members in the extended family. And I think most people would agree that running a country and a substantial portion of the world’s oil supply is pretty notable. That’s an [excellent example](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud#Most_notable_current_members). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/79 "2011-01-07T17:49:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Have you considered that maybe he should stop acting like an internet toughguy and saying his family is more notable than a very well-known family, unless he’s going to step up and prove it? > > I mean, I realize that everyone on the internet is 6’8" with washboard abs and a new Corvette in the driveway, but it doesn’t impress me unless you can back it up. Blake’s not the one who’s coming across poorly here. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537/80 "2011-01-07T18:04:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Blake’s not the one who’s coming across poorly here. Thanks for your opinion, oh wise one. I don’t care what you think, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-contemporary-family-with-a-greater-number-of-notable-members-than-the-gracies/566537.md?page=5)