# Is there a deep state or cabal \[spelling corrected\] that is controlling the government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336 "2021-03-21T02:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/61 "2021-03-21T21:08:30Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > I’m talking about Alex Jones stuff talking about Hollywood and rich people drinking blood and running around nude by the tree and doing sadistic rituals Do you really think Hollywood types and rich people drink blood and run around nude at night and then spend their days running a secret cabal to control the United States? No wonder this all-powerful group of rich blood-drinking nudists was too stupid to rig the voting machines in 2016 and keep Donald Trump from ever being elected President. They’re too tired from all the dancing and blood-drinking to pay attention to details. When I form MY cabal, I’m going to staff it with dull accountants and engineers who know how to find the missing pieces in my master plan. ---
**Author:** ![Jillwood77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e47c2d/32.png) [@Jillwood77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillwood77)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/62 "2021-03-21T21:10:31Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Illuminati Are there different types of Illuminati? I’m talking about the Alex Jones Illuminati and showing videos. When he was doing that in the past!! Yes before switching over to a ultra conservative guy and switched his theme base talking to the ultra right. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/63 "2021-03-21T21:11:51Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > I’m talking about the Alex Jones Illuminati and showing videos. When he was doing that in past!! Yes before switching over to a ultra conservative guy and switched his theme base talking to ultra right. This is going all over the place. What do _you_ believe about this topic? ---
**Author:** ![Jillwood77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e47c2d/32.png) [@Jillwood77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillwood77)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/64 "2021-03-21T21:16:32Z")
I have not really looked into it. I only seen a number of his videos back in the old days when he was different guy. He was more a libertarian back than before becoming an ultra conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/65 "2021-03-21T21:17:04Z")
What do you think about the topic of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/66 "2021-03-21T21:22:29Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > I only seen a number of his videos back in the old days when he was different guy. > > He was more a libertarian back than before becoming an ultra conservative. OK, ask yourself which is more likely 1. There’s a secret cabal of blood-drinking, Satan-worshipping, nude tree dancers who also happen to be wealthy and powerful enough to control the government, mass media, and business structure of the United States for decades, and the only people who have discovered it are a small group of fringe patriots who this all-powerful cabal doesn’t simply get rid of. Or 1. People who believe #1 are wrong ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/67 "2021-03-21T22:17:42Z")
Don’t forget that the Deep State is also about bringing a Marxist agenda into a position of power and enslaving all good Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Jillwood77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e47c2d/32.png) [@Jillwood77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillwood77)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/68 "2021-03-22T00:06:10Z")
Well it is mostly conservatives that are supporting and seem to believe into conspiracy stuff like the QAnon, illuminati or deep state. I have not heard any of them talk about big businesses or the super rich. And nothing on monopolies, interest groups or lobbying. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/69 "2021-03-22T00:17:06Z")
It’s the [“Look Over There” tactic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc). Conservative _voters_ care about a lot of issues that conservative _politicians_ do not. Those politicians get elected by turning to their voters and saying “We know x is a problem, but look over there! This thing is awful! That’s the _real_ reason you’re suffering. Not our rich friends in business. Oh no!” Conservative voters then repeat what their politicians say, because they trust _them_ more than “the liberal media” or scientists, economists, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/70 "2021-03-22T00:42:11Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > I have not heard any of them talk about big businesses or the super rich. And nothing on monopolies, interest groups or lobbying. You’ve already admitted that you know very little about the subject. Why would you think that you know much about these completely insane conspiracy theories? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/71 "2021-03-22T02:13:12Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > Well it is mostly conservatives that are supporting and seem to believe into conspiracy stuff like the QAnon, illuminati or deep state. > > I have not heard any of them talk about big businesses or the super rich. And nothing on monopolies, interest groups or lobbying. That is a non-answer to my question. I was inquiring about _your_ opinion about the topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/72 "2021-03-22T03:56:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > It’s entirely possible the government is controlled by COBOL. It is. They are having a hard time updating their computer systems. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > No, if you had read my cite, you’d know that I’m talking about the Bavarian Illuminati, the only serious association that ever bore this name, but came undone ca. 1800. Every other talk about influential “Illuminati” is bullshit. But don’t forget the awesome Illuminatus trilogy! > **[The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid, The Golden Apple, Leviathan:...](https://www.amazon.com/Illuminatus-Trilogy-Pyramid-Golden-Leviathan/dp/0440539811)** > > The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid, The Golden Apple, Leviathan \[Robert Shea, Robert Anton Wilson\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid, The Golden Apple, Leviathan Anyhow, best I can tell is that “deep state” refers to any government employee who knows what they’re doing, which is an anathema to conservatives for whom the government does no good is a matter of faith. And this can go to GQ, really. NO. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/73 "2021-03-22T04:01:12Z")
Regulatory capture by wealthy, entrenched interests is a massive problem in the US government at all levels. Not just the federal level and not just with republicans. But its not the same thing as an organized cabal, its just a bunch of disorganized rich and influential people using their wealth and influence to give themselves more wealth and influence. Also sometimes what those rich people want goes against what other rich people want. The fossil fuel industry vs renewable energy industry for example. Or Trial lawyers organization vs large corporations. Health insurance companies vs hospital agencies. ---
**Author:** ![Pooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/41988e/32.png) [@Pooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pooter)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/74 "2021-03-22T05:24:33Z")
The King of Great. But as Winston Churchill is quoted as saying, the further back one can look the further forward one can see. What would give anyone the impression that anyone is controlling the government, the current tulmet? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/75 "2021-03-22T11:51:28Z")
“Tulmet” is a new word for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/76 "2021-03-22T12:06:45Z")
The “Evil Cabal” is now and has always been the rich and powerful manipulating and controlling the hoi polloi. The times, places, languages and culture may change, but the dynamic never has and never will. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/77 "2021-03-22T13:00:36Z")
I’m gonna set up my own Illuminati, with blackjack and hookers. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/78 "2021-03-22T15:20:40Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > Some say the US politicians have no morality or are atheists and no longer go to church. > > But it seems much more than that. The US policy are very much look like deep state or cobel control the government. I gotta ask ya: how is babby formed? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/79 "2021-03-22T15:40:39Z")
Exactly. And the concept predates Trump, FWIW. The way I’ve always heard it was that the “deep state” wasn’t so much just the Federal bureaucracy being competent and not doing Trump’s bidding, although that certainly was part of what he meant. Rather it was the aggregate of the interests of the Federal bureaucracies, their business partners, and the politicians and powerful people who interact with them. But none of it is organized, aware of the other parts, or even working toward common goals. But it does offer significant resistance to change or doing things in unorthodox or unusual ways, regardless of party. You could describe it as institutional inertia and/or momentum on a very large scale, and you’d be fairly close. As I’ve seen it defined, it would resist any sort of AOC/Omar progressive excess just as much as it resisted Trump’s right-wing excess. What it isn’t, is some kind of nefarious cabal of business leaders, federal bureaucrats and billionaires secretly colluding and pulling the strings of the people with their hands on the levers of power. It’s not conscious like that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336/80 "2021-03-23T00:37:57Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Rather it was the aggregate of the interests of the Federal bureaucracies, their business partners, and the politicians and powerful people who interact with them. But none of it is organized, aware of the other parts, or even working toward common goals. But it does offer significant resistance to change or doing things in unorthodox or unusual ways, regardless of party. You could describe it as institutional inertia and/or momentum on a very large scale, and you’d be fairly close. As I’ve seen it defined, it would resist any sort of AOC/Omar progressive excess just as much as it resisted Trump’s right-wing excess. I worked for the Bell System, and this is a perfect description of a lot of that also, before divestiture. I suspect any large, long lasting organization shows this, which is why startups can eat the lunch of entrenched companies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-deep-state-or-cabal-spelling-corrected-that-is-controlling-the-government/938336.md?page=5)