# Is there a Democratic candidate for POTUS I can support? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714 "2019-11-20T17:28:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/41 "2019-11-20T20:36:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My vote goes to the candidate that most pleases me. Criteria to please me is listed, in part, in the OP. Then you have to take full responsibility for everything that comes with that vote. You don’t get to dictate to the entire country that they can only choose from those options that please you. Sorry but that is not how this country works. You make a choice, you take responsibility for that choice. This is a lesson we all should have learned in childhood. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/42 "2019-11-20T20:36:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My criteria include, but are not limited to: > > 1. Generally considered moderate on most issues. > 2. No support for any form of gun ban, whether limited to “assault weapons” or not. > 3. No support for any form of gun registration or licensing . > 4. Support for legalization of marijuana is a plus, but I can live without it. > > Unfortunately, I think criteria 2 & 3 eliminate the entire field, or at least the ones that have a real chance to be the nominee. 3 eliminates Booty but, I’ll note, 3 eliminates all the Republican candidates as well. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/43 "2019-11-20T20:37:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, Hillary Clinton is a pretty moderate Democrat, but Republicans have painted her as to the left of Che Guevara. Then when Dems have candidates like Warren and Bernie, suddenly Hillary looks pretty good, eh? No. Hillary was and is a horrible human being and is unworthy of elected office. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/44 "2019-11-20T20:38:53Z")
The question should be, is voting a form of virtue-signaling? Is it a way to give a trophy to a candidate? Or is it a way of putting your hand on the trolley and pushing it onto a new track? I’m firmly in the third camp. I don’t give a shit about the self-esteem of the people running for president. I don’t care about rewarding them or helping them attain their goals. I don’t care about making sure my own hands are clean and not covered in pigshit. I care about what happens due to our nation’s government, what good or ill it does. Way I see it, we have 130 million people pushing that trolley in all kinds of directions, but there’s only two main tracks. and that trolley is 100% guaranteed to go on one of those two tracks. Maybe there’s 5 people getting squashed on track 1 and 100 people squashed on track 2. Sure, nobody gets squashed on track 3, **but that fucking trolley isn’t gonna go on track 3** , and if I push that way, I don’t affect the process. My only actual choices are: 1. Push the trolley toward track 1. 2. Push the trolley toward track 2. 3. Don’t give any meaningful push. People who refuse to push toward track 1 because track 3 exists are making the decision to make track 2 more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/45 "2019-11-20T20:40:03Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Read the fucking thread. Specifically post #27, where I clearly stated that I have voted for Dems quite recently, and would love to do so in 2020. Trump is up for election, presumably, in 2020. You are saying to the left that if we don’t nominate someone to your liking then the country gets it in the form of Trump getting reelected, and its all our fault. That is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/46 "2019-11-20T20:40:49Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Trump is up for election, presumably, in 2020. > > You are holding a gun to the left saying that if we don’t nominate someone to your liking then the country gets it in the form of Trump getting reelected, and its all our fault. > > That is bullshit. But hey, his hands will be clean, so there’s that! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/47 "2019-11-20T20:40:52Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Then you have to take full responsibility for everything that comes with that vote. > > You don’t get to dictate to the entire country that they can only choose from those options that please you. Sorry but that is not how this country works. You make a choice, you take responsibility for that choice. This is a lesson we all should have learned in childhood. That’s ridiculous. My candidate last time lost. My candidates in recent state elections lost. From a practical standpoint, whoever I vote for in 2020 won’t matter. My state worships Trump like he’s Jesus 2: Nazi Boogaloo. This state is going hard red no matter what. I’d just like to have a Dem candidate I can support… ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/48 "2019-11-20T20:42:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That’s ridiculous. My candidate last time lost. My candidates in recent state elections lost. From a practical standpoint, whoever I vote for in 2020 won’t matter. My state worships Trump like he’s Jesus 2: Nazi Boogaloo. This state is going hard red no matter what. I’d just like to have a Dem candidate I can support… So this whole thread is moot then :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/49 "2019-11-20T20:43:54Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Trump is up for election, presumably, in 2020. > > You are saying to the left that if we don’t nominate someone to your liking then the country gets it in the form of Trump getting reelected, and its all our fault. > > That is bullshit. No, I’m not saying that. You need to have someone electable if you want to win. Dems can win without my vote, but not without the support of moderates–and Bernie or Warren ain’t gonna pull moderate votes. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/50 "2019-11-20T20:45:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That’s ridiculous. My candidate last time lost. My candidates in recent state elections lost. From a practical standpoint, whoever I vote for in 2020 won’t matter. My state worships Trump like he’s Jesus 2: Nazi Boogaloo. This state is going hard red no matter what. I’d just like to have a Dem candidate I can support… Total freedom of gun ownership hasn’t been policy by any mainstream party since, I’d venture to guess, before you were born. I mean, no offense to you, but you are in essence saying, “I will only vote for an anarcho-libertarian. Why doesn’t the non-anarcho-libertarian party not have any damn anarcho-libertarian candidates?” Well… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/51 "2019-11-20T20:45:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, I’m not saying that. You need to have someone electable if you want to win. Dems can win without my vote, but not without the support of moderates–and Bernie or Warren ain’t gonna pull moderate votes. The moderate candidate sure won big in 2016, right? America would never elect a burn-the-system-down motherfucker for president. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/52 "2019-11-20T20:47:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > 7 There simply are not enough radical lefties out there to win a national election. So those of us who support reasonable licensing and restrictions on gun ownership (e.g., so it is less likely a disaffected 17 y.o. can go shoot up a school) are “radical lefties?” This is the moving Overton window in action. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/53 "2019-11-20T20:49:01Z")
> [@bobsmom101](#): > > So those of us who support reasonable licensing and restrictions on gun ownership (e.g., so it is less likely a disaffected 17 y.o. can go shoot up a school) are “radical lefties?” This is the moving Overton window in action. Cite to where I said that? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/54 "2019-11-20T20:49:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, I’m not saying that. You need to have someone electable if you want to win. Dems can win without my vote, but not without the support of moderates–and Bernie or Warren ain’t gonna pull moderate votes. Not without the support of the left either. And policies that are supported by the majority of the country _are_ moderate. Absolute gun rights is the extreme position. Look at the polls I shared. You are not in the moderate position on this. Expecting both candidates for president to be in your extreme position is not going to happen. Vote your conscience, but don’t blame anyone else for your choice. That’s all I’m asking. If a person can look at Trump and almost literally anyone else, and still choose Trump, then that is an awful person. We have the last 3 years now, ignorance can’t be an excuse this time. We all know exactly what he is. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/55 "2019-11-20T20:50:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The moderate candidate sure won big in 2016, right? America would never elect a burn-the-system-down motherfucker for president. You really think Bernie or Warren is going to come closer than Hillary did? If you do, could I interest you in this fine bridge I have for sale? (By quit claim deed, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/56 "2019-11-20T20:55:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You really think Bernie or Warren is going to come closer than Hillary did? If you do, could I interest you in this fine bridge I have for sale? (By quit claim deed, of course). So you’ve already said that your state will go Trump no matter what so your vote won’t make a difference. Why should the Democratic party be beholden to nominating someone that you personally approve of then? You seem to be simultaneously arguing that voters like you are the key to victory while admitting that your vote won’t actually matter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/57 "2019-11-20T21:00:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You really think Bernie or Warren is going to come closer than Hillary did? If you do, could I interest you in this fine bridge I have for sale? (By quit claim deed, of course). I don’t bet, but you can enter your predictions at the betting market of your choice. The idea that Americans are keen for a moderate of the particular stripe you support is universal, since everyone defines themselves as a moderate. But I don’t think our electorate is especially concerned with electing a middle-of-the-road person, no. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/58 "2019-11-20T21:03:05Z")
Thank you Oakminster for a posting a breath of fresh air and brutal honesty. It takes balls to state that you would rather 1000’s of innocent people die every year so that you don’t have to register your gun. Bravo! Not many people are honest enough to say that they would prefer the country slide into ruin than have to fill out a piece of paper. Strong work! I also appreciate your dedication to the idea that absolutely no restrictions on firearms is the most important issue in the country. Makes me proud. Thank you for your service. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/59 "2019-11-20T21:03:25Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You seem to be simultaneously arguing that voters like you are the key to victory while admitting that your vote won’t actually matter. Voters in states that are in play do matter. Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, possibly even Georgia and (gasp) Texas could, theoretically go Dem in 2020. I don’t think they will for Bernie or Warren. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/60 "2019-11-20T21:07:44Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Thank you Oakminster for a posting a breath of fresh air and brutal honesty. > > It takes balls to state that you would rather 1000’s of innocent people die every year so that you don’t have to register your gun. Bravo! > Not many people are honest enough to say that they would prefer the country slide into ruin than have to fill out a piece of paper. Strong work! Cite to where I said that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714.md?page=4)