# Is there a Democratic candidate for POTUS I can support? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714 "2019-11-20T17:28:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/101 "2019-11-21T01:10:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Are you ever going to explain what your other moderate positions are, or do you just care about guns? I’ve posted several times that I’m pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I’m a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech–even unpopular speech. Yes, I’d allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I’d even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/102 "2019-11-21T01:24:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’ve posted several times that I’m pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I’m a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech–even unpopular speech. Yes, I’d allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I’d even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district. I agree with all that. We are the silent majority of Dem voters. Unfortunately the Purity Progressives want us Bill Clinton/Obama types relegated to the back bench. Bernie, Liz, AOC, and Omar are the new face of Democrats. They have a rude awakening coming. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/103 "2019-11-21T01:50:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Joe Walsh is a hard-right-tea-party-conservative who called Obama a Muslim … Free advertising from the real Joe Walsh: _[Vote for Me](https://youtu.be/Iz77XHvlYEs)_ ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/104 "2019-11-21T03:07:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m looking for a candidate to support. Trump is a complete non-starter for me. Didn’t vote for him last time, won’t vote for him this time. I did have an opportunity to watch one of his rallies on television a few weeks ago. Sounded like he’d fit right in had he spoken in Berlin in 1938. > > If I can’t find a suitable Dem, I’ll cast my ballot for a third party, likely Libertarian, or write myself in. Hence, this thread. That’s a very fair response, and I shouldn’t have jumped to conclusions that you see it as a two party race. I mean it is, but I hadn’t considered you would vote for a third party candidate. Do you live in a state where you expect the outcome is already decided (eg, California or Kansas)? Also, if you do find a candidate you like, do you think you’d campaign for him, or are we just talking about who you will vote for on Election Day? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/105 "2019-11-21T03:14:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My criteria include, but are not limited to: > > 1. Generally considered moderate on most issues. > 2. No support for any form of gun ban, whether limited to “assault weapons” or not. > 3. No support for any form of gun registration or licensing . > 4. Support for legalization of marijuana is a plus, but I can live without it. > > Unfortunately, I think criteria 2 & 3 eliminate the entire field, or at least the ones that have a real chance to be the nominee. I can’t think of anyone who matches currently. What would you consider a working definition of “moderate” if some Democrat magically said “you know what, I’m not really a fan of guns, but it’s pointless to fight it, let’s put our resources elsewhere”? Or maybe more to the point, what would you consider too immoderate? I think that’s a good pragmatic idea (strategically abandoning the anti-gun crusade), and I am not an original thinker, so someone else is probably thinking of running on it right now. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/106 "2019-11-21T04:56:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’ve posted several times that I’m pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I’m a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech–even unpopular speech. Yes, I’d allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I’d even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district. Since my first attempt apparently didn’t merit a response, I’ll ask again: Why are gun rights your priority over all your other positions? Why do the rights of gay people, more lax drug laws, free speech, fiscal responsibility, public good over private wealth accumulation, and children’s rights all get pushed to the side because of one issue about guns? I’m a pro-life, fiscally responsible liberal who knows Clinton committed perjury, but those disagreements with the Democrat party line dont even come close to overwhelming my desire to stand up for equality and fairness, to put an end to white nationalism, and to not have subhuman garbage like Trump run my party. This idea that guns outweigh all the other viewpoints is foreign to me. Why put aside so many of your positions for guns? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/107 "2019-11-21T05:15:16Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Pro tip: he was never considering voting for a dem. When the OP says multiple times they have and are considering voting for a dem, this is essentially an accusation of lying. You also have this habit of dropping these one line turds that do nothing other than add snide remarks. Knock it off. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/108 "2019-11-21T05:16:38Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Thank you Oakminster for a posting a breath of fresh air and brutal honesty. > > It takes balls to state that you would rather 1000’s of innocent people die every year so that you don’t have to register your gun. Bravo! > Not many people are honest enough to say that they would prefer the country slide into ruin than have to fill out a piece of paper. Strong work! > I also appreciate your dedication to the idea that absolutely no restrictions on firearms is the most important issue in the country. Makes me proud. > > Thank you for your service. Purposely misstating a person’s positions in an effort to denigrate them is pretty jerkish. Don’t do that. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/109 "2019-11-21T12:20:44Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > My problem with that is how absolutely selfish that is. > No regulations on you means that many other totally innocent people will be shot. > No regulations on you means that many families will mourn their sons and daughters, live without their husbands and fathers. > No regulations on you means that others will live with the knowledge that their 3 year old killed their 5 year old. > Just so that you can shoot as much as you want. > > Selfish. Selfish and complicit in so many of the things that have made America so screwed up these days. I may lean slightly to the anti-gun side of the fence, but I disagree with this. _ **The problem with voting against “gun grabbers” is NOT that gun grabbing is good; it’s that there are a myriad of much much more important issues.** _ The U.S. is adding to federal debt at a rate of a trillion dollars per year. Income inequality is as bad as it’s been since the 1920’s and is getting worse. Globalism and automation dictate a fundamental shift in economic paradigms. Evil countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia are gaining strength with U.S. assistance. The Middle East is still a mess. Environmental regulations have been devastated; cancers and other health problems will rise as corporations are increasingly permitted to pollute lakes and streams. Science becomes increasingly important as humanity faces new challenges; yet science is being devastated by U.S. policies. NASA is no longer allowed to publish controversial climate data, but is encouraged to waste money on a Mars boondoggle. Racism is on the rise. U.S. prestige is plummeting and former allies turn to countries like China or even Russia. American healthcare costs continue to rise; education standards continue to fall; young Americans are stifled by debt, in some cases due to government cooperation with fraudulent schools. An opioid epidemic is causing American life expectancy to fall. News media are dominated by lies. Cyber warfare, both hard and soft, will become a big problem. By some measures electoral and political corruption are at all-time highs. Et cetera. _Yet gun control is the issue that determines how many Americans vote?_ :smack: The hilarity would make me laugh if it weren’t so very very sad. What makes that voting criterion especially ill-advised is that any significant gun-control is NOT coming any time soon. The political support isn’t there at the national level, and there are far more important issues that will require more urgent attention. And … > [@cutman74](#): > > Just for the record, One of the first gun laws “gun grabber” Obama signed was one allowing citizens to carry loaded weapons in national parks. Business Insider, Dec 21, 2012. Don’t know how to link, but it was easy to find. Has other gun rights expanding bills signed into law as well. Didn’t read the whole article. Just wanted to make sure my memory was correct. … the idea that guns will suddenly be restricted under even an anti-gun President is just a right-wing boogeyman anyway. HTH. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/110 "2019-11-21T13:03:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > And all of my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident in January, 2009. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It was a bad time for a lot of (former) gun owners. ☹ Yes, I feel for those “law-abiding” gun owners. > [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > You are correct. That “gun-grabbing” Obama also signed a bill allowing firearms as Amtrak cargo. > > Another reason he is my favorite President of my lifetime (since JFK). It’s a pity all those gun owners had boating accidents at the beginning of his administration. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, but all of those things are already law in CA, but CA still has a higher murder rate. In fact CA has just about the strongest gun control laws in the uSA. They do not seem to have done much good. It’s almost as if the magic barrier that stops people from just bringing in bags of guns from places where they don’t have those laws in place aren’t working properly. > [@](#): > > So you can have ALL of those regulations yet all those bad things still happen. See also: murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/111 "2019-11-21T14:05:41Z")
I might suggest that your views on guns are rather extreme and no Democrat will ever match them and dare I say extremely few Republicans would either. So perhaps you should consider whether that one issue trumps all others and that you’re willing to sacrifice all other issues on the altar of guns. Have you ever tried [the I Side With Quiz](https://www.isidewith.com/elections/2020-presidential-quiz)? For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/112 "2019-11-21T16:45:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I might suggest that your views on guns are rather extreme and no Democrat will ever match them and dare I say extremely few Republicans would either. So perhaps you should consider whether that one issue trumps all others and that you’re willing to sacrifice all other issues on the altar of guns. > > Have you ever tried [the I Side With Quiz](https://www.isidewith.com/elections/2020-presidential-quiz)? > > For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom. Thanks for posting that link. I always forget about it. I’m in a similar position to Oak in that I don’t agree with any of the democratic front runners and won’t vote for Trump. I’ve resigned myself to voting for Cory Gardener to keep republican control of the senate if I have to vote for Warren. I took the quiz with a bunch of the ask more questions options and was surprised to see Democrats as my top 4 matches (in order Klobuchar, Booker, Yang and Castro). What I thought was fascinating was the next three were Weld (R), Warren (D) and Johnson (L) which I guess shows that I’m in a weird part of the political spectrum. Trump was last on the list. Hopefully, at least one of those top four dems is still in the race for Colorado caucus and I have a reason to do some deeper research on them. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/113 "2019-11-21T16:59:06Z")
I got a very strong match with Marianne Williamson on that quiz. Something is clearly broken. I responded that vaccinating kids is very important to me, plus I’m totally cool with drone attacks on terrorists. I can’t imagine two issues that we could be further apart on. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/114 "2019-11-21T17:07:14Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > S Why put aside so many of your positions for guns? I’m not “putting aside” my other positions. Those things are still important to me, and I suspect a candidate that matches my views on guns will also likely have reasonably acceptable positions on the other issues. I tend to be strongly small (l) libertarian in most things. I don’t think the state should tell me what I can own, ingest/consume, say, think, or do so long as I do not violate the rights of others in so doing. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/115 "2019-11-21T17:07:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Trump is up for election, presumably, in 2020. > > You are saying to the left that if we don’t nominate someone to your liking then the country gets it in the form of Trump getting reelected, and its all our fault. > > That is bullshit. I guess I could say it’s all OUR fault. This comes with one stipulation, YOU are voting for the Dem anyway, regardless who it is. Proposing a more moderate form of D, garners voters like him (and me) to vote for the D so yes, it is on YOU and those of you who staunchly support the Democrats to find an electable candidate. I don’t really understand why you guys who rail against third party voters because they just couldn’t stomach voting for the hard left or Trump … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/116 "2019-11-21T17:08:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My criteria include, but are not limited to: > > 1. Generally considered moderate on most issues. > 2. No support for any form of gun ban, whether limited to “assault weapons” or not. > 3. No support for any form of gun registration or licensing . > 4. Support for legalization of marijuana is a plus, but I can live without it. > > Unfortunately, I think criteria 2 & 3 eliminate the entire field, or at least the ones that have a real chance to be the nominee. If 2 and 3 are all absolute litmus tests for you then likely no. Odds are you will have to make a choice (and inaction is a choice as much as any action is). Of course the reality is that SCOTUS rulings and current SCOTUS composition make significant movement on any “gun ban” unlikely but yup there is no D with a chance to win who will not state support for what the vast majority of the public, inclusive of gun owners and Republicans, consider common sense gun regulation. It would be foolish of them to do so. Many many more of those voters than you - in the general electorate let alone among D primary voters. So you will be dealing with enabling (by action or inaction) what is within the art of the possible. _Possibly_ (has to get by the Senate) some modest movement on gun registration and licensing as a compromise for a president who is otherwise not batshit insane, corrupt, a harm to American interests and friend to Russia’s, and a danger to the planet perhaps even existentially … or facilitating (actively or passively) all of the latter. I see how that is a tough call … ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/117 "2019-11-21T17:14:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m not “putting aside” my other positions. Those things are still important to me, and I suspect a candidate that matches my views on guns will also likely have reasonably acceptable positions on the other issues. Yet, even taken together, those positions are not enough to get you to support any politician who wants reasonable gun control. Why is that? And what, if anything, would this administration and its enablers have to do to outweigh your hatred of gun control? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/118 "2019-11-21T17:21:10Z")
Your support isn’t really needed for any of them. Feel free to sit out the nominating process. Just hold your nose and vote D exclusively until the R party no longer exists. It’s the right thing to do (which is why I prescribe this course of action for every voter in the country). Actual Democrats ought to participate in the nominations, of course. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/119 "2019-11-21T17:23:43Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I guess I could say it’s all OUR fault. This comes with one stipulation, YOU are voting for the Dem anyway, regardless who it is. Proposing a more moderate form of D, garners voters like him (and me) to vote for the D so yes, it is on YOU and those of you who staunchly support the Democrats to find an electable candidate. > > I don’t really understand why you guys who rail against third party voters because they just couldn’t stomach voting for the hard left or Trump … Because the elimination of the Republican Party has emerged as the most existentially critical task that America has. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714/120 "2019-11-21T17:26:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Have you ever tried [the I Side With Quiz](https://www.isidewith.com/elections/2020-presidential-quiz)? > > For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom. I made sure I filled out all the questions, although on a fair number I went with more nuanced answers. I ended up with most of the Democratic field in a tight cluster at the top (Klobuchar, Booker and Buttigieg were listed first but most were within about five percentage points and all within 10). Biden was the furthest Democrat out at about 81%. So clearly on the issues that are weightiest to me, the Democrats are all pretty much of a muchness. Gary Johnson managed to land in the mid-60s for me, and unsurprisingly Trump was at the bottom of the list at 31%. So it looks like Any Democrat (including - barf - Williamson) will do for me according to that quiz. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-democratic-candidate-for-potus-i-can-support/843714.md?page=7)