# Is there a difference between "Grand Strategy" and 4X? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730 "2016-03-02T12:34:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/1 "2016-03-02T12:34:15Z")
Thinking about this last night trying to describe the difference to a friend and I really couldn’t come up with much other than if it’s made by Paradox it’s probably “Grand Strategy”. Is there a definition out there that makes the differences clear, or are there even any differences? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/2 "2016-03-02T13:08:51Z")
I think the whole resource exploitation aspect is de-emphasized in Paradox-style grand strategy. In EU4, for example, they’re mostly interchangeable, whether they be gold or grain or slaves. In CKII they’re missing altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/3 "2016-03-02T13:31:02Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > I think the whole resource exploitation aspect is de-emphasized in Paradox-style grand strategy. Same with “eXplore.” There’s no exploration to be done, because you can see the whole map all the time. Grand strategy games pull you all the way back so that you can see everything. They’re computerized board games, which makes sense, because the term “grand strategy” is a board game term. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/4 "2016-03-02T14:16:45Z")
4X is a story that starts from the beginning with fog of war to every direction. Grand Strategy games start _in medias res_. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/5 "2016-03-02T16:03:01Z")
Matrix Games has done the “World in Flames” [monster] board game for the PC. You refight WW2, any or all theaters. I consider that to be “grand strategy”. Sure, Germany can “expand” (conquer Poland, France, etc.), and “exploit” (using conquered resources and factories for production), there is no “explore” at all. Nations can not develop more than a couple new (synthetic oil) resources that didn’t exist at game start, either, nor colonize (building new populations, cities). ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-grand-strategy-and-4x/747730/6 "2016-03-02T16:44:37Z")
I think you’d struggle to find a 4X game that wasn’t Grand Strategy, but there are Grand Strategy games that aren’t 4X.