# Is there a difference between middle school and junior high school? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 26, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494 "2022-04-26T17:11:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/61 "2022-04-27T16:47:03Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Whereas if you had un-suppressed 7-9 graders, they got full of themselves and got used to acting up. I think the word scrubs was used. > > Dad complained about a lot of things. He wasn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/62 "2022-04-27T16:50:19Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > That reminds me. My dad used to complain about splitting grades 7-9 out of high school. His opinion was that in a proper high school, the older students kept the younger ones in line. Whereas if you had un-suppressed 7-9 graders, they got full of themselves and got used to acting up. I think the word scrubs was used. > > Dad complained about a lot of things. It sounds to me that by “un-suppressed” your father meant not bullied. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/63 "2022-04-27T16:55:22Z")
Ignore – misread a previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/64 "2022-04-27T16:59:31Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It sounds to me that by “un-suppressed” your father meant not bullied. There was definitely hazing of 7th graders on the first day of school. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/65 "2022-04-27T17:07:33Z")
Some people seem to think that being bullied is a way of “toughening up” kids when all it does is to make school hell for them. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/66 "2022-04-27T17:17:35Z")
Literally in every case that I am aware of the rationale was to more effectively utilize the available space and Minimize the number of new school buildings. I can’t think of a single instance where the change LOWERED occupancy and utilization. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/67 "2022-04-27T19:41:42Z")
And then there are those of us who grew up in Canada (or at least Ontario), where it was grade 7 and grade 8 (yes, "grade _n_, not “_n_th grade”) and was called Senior Public! I still tend to say “Senior Public” 35 years after moving back, always have to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/68 "2022-04-27T22:31:51Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Sometimes - but sometimes it’s also a matter of demographics. Now that we have added pre-K and 3 K to the previously K-6 schools , we need to move 6th grade to the former junior high school and 9th grade to the high school. Or the high schools are over crowded and the middle schools have space, so we move 9th grade to the former middle school. And sometimes a district will have one year-cohort of students that’s just unusually large or small, sometimes for explainable reasons like an epidemic or employers moving in or out of the district, and sometimes just as a result of random statistical noise. That can sometimes lead to the dividing lines between schools being adjusted one year, and then changed back a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/69 "2022-04-27T22:51:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Just an excuse to increase budgets and claim they are doing something new and significant. I’m willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt and assume until I see evidence to the contrary that they’re doing what they think works best for the children and/or maximize the efficiency of the system. Sometimes people actually do what they think is right and want to do “something new and significant” if they think it improves the situation. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/70 "2022-04-27T23:00:11Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Even when most public school students attended 9th grade in the junior high schools , the high schools also had 9th grade. In some cases, it was because specialized high schools admitted new students in 9th grade so students would leave the junior high school and go to high school for 9th grade. But most of the high schools had ninth grade because parochial schools ended at 8th grade, and in those days plenty of kids who went to Catholic or Lutheran schools until 8th grade attended public high schools starting in 9th grade. Yes. I went to a Catholic elementary school through 8th grade. Then, I went to public secondary school…into the 9th or last year/grade of junior high. The junior and senior high public school campuses were adjacent, so we just moved over to the other half of the property in 10th grade. It was only awkward for me because most of my closest friends from elementary school continued into Catholic high school. Also, the several public elementary schools all funnelled into the junior high at the same time in 7th grade and formed their friendships. It took me a good year to get comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/71 "2022-04-27T23:13:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt and assume until I see evidence to the contrary that they’re doing what they think works best for the children and/or maximize the efficiency of the system. Sometimes people actually do what they think is right and want to do “something new and significant” if they think it improves the situation. Yeah - I’m not saying a lot of education folk WANT to do something bad. **“Let’s fuck up the little kiddies!”** But those in academia don’t get a lot of mileage out of saying, **“Everything’s working great. Let’s just do it better!”** IMO, a lot of education reform is the equivalent of printing **“New and Improved”** on a product label. And I’ve worked in a non-education bureaucracy of 35+ years. There is a great appeal to changing things just to look like you are doing something. Heck, you get a new superintendent in, what can they do better than propose sweeping reforms. Then, by the time they are finally enacted and before there will be a chance to assess them, the supervisor has moved on to another gig where they can qualify for another pension. Plus, there is the consistent bureaucratic urge to spend more money. And I’m not sure where you are, but around these parts, maximizing efficiency plays ZERO role in educational decisions. Just one of many examples, but I remember one time I was attending public hearings over a proposed referendum. IIRC in the 20 million range. Mostly for construction. All of the talk was about how to get the referendum passed. At one point during public comment I asked, **“What exactly is it that the schools want/need to spend 20 million on?”** The board looked at me like I had 2 heads, and the superintendent offered no answers. Of course they didn’t have any list of wants/needs totaling 20 million. Instead, that was the maximum they were allowed to seek, so their sole focus was in getting it passed. At THAT point, they’d figure what to spend it on. No, I will not grant the school districts I have been familiar with the benefit of the doubt in such matters. The utter amateurishness with which school boards spend millions would be astounding if it weren’t so consistent. I am happy for you if your schools are more professionally and responsibly run. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/72 "2022-04-27T23:21:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Of course they didn’t have any list of wants/needs totaling 20 million. When we have a referendum for a school district bond, they outline exactly what they intend do do with the money. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/73 "2022-04-28T06:04:58Z")
My K – 12 experience in South Jersey: **Kindergarten:** Held in an old dilapidated school building, next to our town Swim Club. We used to peer through the classroom windows longing to be swimming at the club next door, instead of stuck in that old building making paper mache crap. **Elementary School Part 1** (grades 1-3). Held in a sleek, 60’s-modern school building. It was great attending school in such a cool building after parole from the depressing kindergarten school. But, by 3rd grade we knew our 3 year stint in giddy luxury was coming to an end. We saw our fate every day through the classroom windows. Next door to Elementary School Part 1 was Elementary School Part 2! Dante’s Inferno. The Roach School Motel: _students check in, but they don’t check out!_ **Elementary School Part 2** (grades 4-6) was attended in a very old, run down school building that looked exactly like a haunted mansion from a B & W Chiller Thriller film. It was dreary (dark and dank), noisy (moaning pipes and hissing water heaters), and dangerous (crumbling asbestos ceilings, bursting pipes). Even the teachers resembled rotting corpses with pocket protectors. That was a tough 3-year sentence. **Middle School** (grades 7-8). The brand-spanking new middle school building wasn’t completed until the second half of my 7th grade, so they crammed us all into the over-crowded high school, on split-schedule (AM and PM) for our first semester. I was in the AM group. Sucked to walk 2 miles to school in the dark, but nice to get out at noon and have lots of daylight left to play! Our middle school was split into 4 “houses” (East, West, North and South), with clusters of teachers for each house. The houses were loosely based on academic ability. Kids in the “nerd house” (North) were taunted constantly. Kids in the “dumb house” (South) were ridiculed mercilessly. If I remember correctly, I was in the “cool house” (West). But, perhaps I was in the “dumb house” and too stupid to remember correctly. **High School** (grades 9-12). Typical Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior level school. Like Riverdale High from Archie Comics. Only unique because it had an open-air courtyard where seniors were permitted to smoke (and _what_ they smoked didn’t seem to concern teachers). I lost all my “cool” cred when I joined band. I was promised trumpet for marching band and bass guitar for jazz band by our very cool music teacher. But, he resigned my freshman year and the new, old, stodgy music teacher assigned me to tuba and sousaphone! Not exactly rock star, chick-magnate instruments. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/74 "2022-04-28T11:33:45Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > I was maybe halfway through freshman year in college before I stopped thinking of myself as a sophomore, because “sophomore” had previously been used to designate the youngest class in a school, the 10th grade of high school. Several folks in this thread have experienced “sophomore” to mean “first year.” Do you folks get confused when “sophomore” is used in its extended sense in entertainment, sports, politics, etc. to mean “second (product, year, etc).”? Like, a musical group’s second album. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/75 "2022-04-28T11:59:58Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Middle school districts use this plan: > K-5: Elementary > 6-8: Middle school > 9-12: High To make things even more confusing, the town I lived in decided when I was in 12th grade to move the 5th grade to the middle school too. But they kept them 100% isolated from the 6-8th graders and even had them have the same hours as the 1-4 students. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/76 "2022-04-28T13:39:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Do you folks get confused when “sophomore” is used in its extended sense in entertainment, sports, politics, etc. to mean “second Well, my confusion cleared up when I was still 18, but it’s true I spent the 10th grade not knowing this. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/77 "2022-04-28T17:40:49Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Do you folks get confused when “sophomore” is used in its extended sense in entertainment, sports, politics, etc. to mean “second (product, year, etc).”? Like, a musical group’s second album. Actually, I think we would. Not because of the first-year/second-year distinction you are clarifying, but simply because « sophomore » is a very uncommon word here. I don’t know whether it’s uncommon outside the States in general, but it’s definitely rare in Southern Ontario. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/78 "2022-04-29T13:43:31Z")
On my first day of 10th grade, every teacher in every class took delight in telling us that “sophomore” meant “wise fool”. Except for my English teacher who insisted it meant “wise moron”. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/79 "2022-04-29T15:38:32Z")
I’m roughly the same age as Johnny and did my whole K-12 journey in Los Angeles, so it’s odd that my experience doesn’t jibe with his. Elementary school was K - 6, junior high school was 7 - 9, and high school was 10 - 12. I did start high school as a sophomore, but it was a high school with no freshmen, i.e., no ninth grade. My dad also grew up in LA and says it was the same for him. Some time much more recently they changed the junior highs to grades 6 through 8 and called them middle schools, even renaming my school from Emerson Junior High to Emerson Middle School. So, from the LAUSD perspective at least, that’s the difference. Junior high was 7 to 9 and middle school is 6 to 8. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494/80 "2022-04-29T15:58:02Z")
I had no confusion because I learned it counting down from the top, Senior, Junior, Sophomore, Freshman. If someone hadn’t heard of ‘Freshman’ I can see they might think ‘Sophomore’ means first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-difference-between-middle-school-and-junior-high-school/963494.md?page=5)