# Is there a downside to legalized sports betting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310 "2024-09-15T18:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/21 "2024-09-15T21:38:02Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > If that example doesn’t work for you, consider the 1951 CCNY point-shaving scandal. That is college sports where the athletes arent paid, and it was before most of us here were born. Are you trying to prove there are sports fixing scandals? Where have I doubted that? Just old news, a hundred+ years ago or 75 years ago are no longer meaningful. And seeing how small the number of examples you have found- it seems like it is not a major issue. But it doesnt matter. Degenerate addicted gamblers ruining their families lives is the bigger issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/22 "2024-09-15T21:44:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That is college sports where the athletes arent paid, Yes, which still exists now. The fact that MLB pay has increased is entirely irrelevant, because there will always be poorly-paid athletes who’d be willing to take a dive for a payout. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/23 "2024-09-15T21:47:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, which still exists now. The fact that MLB pay has increased is entirely irrelevant, because there will always be poorly-paid athletes who’d be willing to take a dive for a payout. I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is the fact that ancient examples are relevant today. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/24 "2024-09-15T22:03:51Z")
Ancient examples applied to a time when athletes weren’t paid very much. We are still in a time when athletes aren’t paid very much. If the ancient examples don’t apply any more, you have to come up with a better justification than that. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/25 "2024-09-15T22:05:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We are still in a time when athletes aren’t paid very much. Well, to be more precise: We are in a time where many athletes _ **still** _ aren’t paid very much, but where also there are many athletes – primarily stars in major sports leagues – who make a very large amount of money. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/26 "2024-09-15T22:07:01Z")
I’m not sure how the athlete-tangent is really relevant to the debate. It’s a given that even if sports gambling were legalized, that every sports league is going to ban their players from participating in it. So, legalizing sports betting won’t change that. I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/27 "2024-09-15T22:11:07Z")
Athletes directly betting on their own games has never been the issue, because that’s really easy to police. The issue is other people betting on the games, and then contacting the athletes with various inducements. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/28 "2024-09-15T22:12:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues. Ohh, it’s already been happening. This article notes [11 NFL players](https://apnews.com/article/nfl-gambling-suspensions-0c31c118f637efa159fad75e7b949418) (and an assistant coach) who have been suspended since 2019 for betting on NFL games. A lot of them were reserves or fringe players, but several were starters. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/29 "2024-09-15T22:17:25Z")
**Canary in coalmine** Some data from Massachusetts. No change in the overall share of problem gamblers (2%), but a big change in reported behaviors by a monthly gambler panel. > Among monthly gamblers in the online surveys, those experiencing gambling problems jumped from 12.7% in 2014 to 20.9% in 2022 to 25.6% in 2023. This compares to a 2% prevalence of problem gambling that held steady in general population surveys conducted before and after casinos were introduced in Massachusetts. > “It’s pretty startling, to be honest,” Volberg says. “While the online panels were not representative of the population, they were very informative in regards to people with gambling difficulties. It’s very helpful from a surveillance and monitoring perspective.” > The survey found increases among monthly gamblers in the online panels in lottery games, sports betting, private wagering, horse racing, bingo and online gambling. I don’t know if this is a longitudinal panel - which could produce biased population results if previous surveys call greater reflection in later surveys or if attrition in the sample implies remaining members are more prone to additions - but the jump from 13 to 21 to 26% is noteworthy. > **[Problem Gambling May Be on the Rise Among Monthly Gamblers in Massachusetts,...](https://www.umass.edu/public-health-sciences/news/problem-gambling-may-be-rise)** > > In three recent gambling surveys conducted by the SEIGMA research team, monthly gamblers in Massachusetts reported an increase in gambling intensity and harm ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/30 "2024-09-16T00:50:31Z")
I googled sports gambling scandals 2024 and found this. > **[The Lesson To Learn From Recent US Sports Betting Scandals](https://closingline.substack.com/p/sports-betting-scandals-2024)** > > The news about the intersection of athletes and sports betting reached a fever pitch this week. > - [The Jontay Porter situation resurfaced.](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40279168/man-charged-betting-scheme-involving-ex-nba-player-jontay-porter) A Brooklyn man was charged in federal court for allegedly encouraging Porter to clear gambling debt by pulling out of games early for betting purposes. Porter had already been banned from the NBA. > - One Major League Baseball player was [banned for life for betting on baseball games](https://apnews.com/article/mlb-gambling-marcano-ban-948cce07c953494e7c7621e47692e1ba), while four others were suspended for a year. > - Shohei Ohtani’s interpreter [pleaded guilty](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40277006/ippei-mizuhara-ex-interpreter-shohei-ohtani-pleads-guilty) to fraud charges in the wake of the revelation he had racked up huge debts and stole money from the Los Angeles Dodgers star. I hope this stops the excuses that the scandals are ancient or that NBA or MLB players make piles of money. The calls are coming from inside. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/31 "2024-09-16T01:13:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > > > If you make gambling totally illegal, organized crime will come close to dominating society. > > > > Sports gambling was effectively 99+% illegal in the U.S. (save for the sports books in Nevada, for the most part) until relatively recently. There was certainly lots of illegal sports gambling going on, and there was, no doubt, a lot of it being run by organized crime, but I don’t think we saw organized crime coming anywhere close to “dominating society.” I was thinking about when they outlawed all horse race betting (the only kind of betting previously legal), in New York, for a few now-forgotten years in the early twentieth century. It is discussed in this good book I recently read: > **[The Incorruptibles](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/dan-slater/the-incorruptibles/9780316427715/?lens=little-brown)** > > This harrowing tale of early twentieth century New York reveals the true stories of an immigrant underworld, a secret vice squad, and the rise of organized c... ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/32 "2024-09-16T01:25:14Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues. > > Ohh, it’s already been happening. Yes. Rich people also gamble. I’m more worried about the people who cannot afford to lose. Suppose the athletes throw their own games. It will come out. Then, thinking the games are rigged, the people who cannot afford to lose money will gamble a bit less. Good. If the leagues want to fire the cheaters, fine. But it is not a public interest problem. Sports gambling has been made too easy, but it is also too late to stop. Just outlaw the advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/33 "2024-09-16T01:41:44Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Sports gambling has been made too easy, but it is also too late to stop. Just outlaw the advertising. Right. As I wrote in the “Commercials You Hate” thread, there are far too many commercials for betting apps during commercial breaks in baseball, football, etc. games. And they all imply that you’re not a _real_ sports fan unless you’re betting. The only sport I bet on is horse racing. But I’m still a fan of football, baseball etc. I don’t need an app to tell me that I’m a real sports fan, and I sure don’t need to be reminded that I’m not at every commercial break. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/34 "2024-09-16T01:51:04Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Yes. Rich people also gamble. Well, yes, but in the case of pro athletes, like NFL players who bet on their own games, knuckleheads gamble, as do gambling addicts. And, despite the fact that the the league and the teams make the rules around gambling crystal-clear to their players and staff, it still happens, and not just once or twice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/35 "2024-09-16T02:21:29Z")
But you see- what really is the downside of -players cheating- in the big picture of life? Small potatoes compared to the degenerate addicted gambler ruining their lives and the lives of their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/36 "2024-09-16T02:25:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Small potatoes compared to the degenerate addicted gambler ruining their lives and the lives of their loved ones. Don’t get me wrong; I agree with you that that’s the real issue. I’m simply pointing out that “I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues” is not a correct assumption. Now that sports gambling is legal in most states – and, in a lot of them, you can place bets on your smartphone – being able to gamble is way too accessible now, and it’s way too easy for someone who’s an addict, or just has poor impulse control, to bet, and lose, more than they can afford to lose. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/37 "2024-09-16T02:33:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m simply pointing out that “I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues” is not a correct assumption. I never said that or implied that. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/38 "2024-09-16T02:41:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I never said that or implied that. I did not say that you did, and I apologize to you if you felt that I was putting words in your mouth; my original post (#28), was in response to @Velocity, who said those exact words: > [@Velocity](#): > > I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Ohh, it’s already been happening. This article notes [11 NFL players](https://apnews.com/article/nfl-gambling-suspensions-0c31c118f637efa159fad75e7b949418) (and an assistant coach) who have been suspended since 2019 for betting on NFL games. A lot of them were reserves or fringe players, but several were starters. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/39 "2024-09-16T02:52:19Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m simply pointing out that “I highly doubt many, if any, NFL, MLB, NBA players are going to be trying to place bets on games in their own leagues” is not a correct assumption. I totally agree, but I would also conjecture that pro athletes are placing bets on games in which they are not participating. IOW, they aren’t betting on games that they can ‘throw’ or at least influence. For instance, there may be a non-zero number of NFL players right now placing bets on the Bears/Texans game. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/40 "2024-09-16T03:02:56Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > For instance, there may be a non-zero number of NFL players right now placing bets on the Bears/Texans game. I have no doubt of that, despite the fact that NFL rules do not allow players to bet on _any_ NFL game, even if they aren’t personally playing in them; any player who gets caught betting on any NFL game faces [a minimum one-year suspension](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38521972/nfl-toughens-bets-own-team-new-gambling-policy) (two years if they bet on a game involving their own team). An NFL player who insists on betting on NFL games anyway is either an idiot, a gambling addict, or both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310.md?page=3)