# Is there a downside to legalized sports betting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310 "2024-09-15T18:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/81 "2024-09-18T03:32:08Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Legendary services, dating back at least to the Racing Form and [celebrated in song.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAIlVCStp3c) Great film. And one of the better songs. Of course, since there are usually 9 races, each of them could be backing a horse in a different race, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/82 "2024-09-18T07:30:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Of course, since there are usually 9 races, each of them could be backing a horse in a different race, but still. There can be anywhere from 5 to 15 races on a day’s card. My local track usually has 5 to 8 races, but larger tracks, such as Woodbine, Churchill Downs, and Santa Anita, might have ten races on an average weekend day. Major stakes (e.g. the Kentucky Derby or King’s Plate) at such places will usually stretch the card out to 12 or 14 races, because there are often smaller stakes races on the same day, and they have to fit the claiming and allowance and maiden races in somehow. But I agree that the guys in the movie could be singing about their “Best Bet” selections, not all of which might be in the same race. The selectors in the local newspaper would always have a “Best Bet” selection, and certainly, in the case of tracks with more than one selector and commentator, all their “Best Bets” would be published in the Racing Form. The selections weren’t necessarily in the same race, and they’d always typically have lousy morning line odds. I can talk racing forever, but I’ll stop here, lest I begin a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/83 "2024-09-18T19:55:04Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Missouri voters are voting on a constitutional amendment to [legalize sports betting](https://www.legalsportsreport.com/missouri/) this November. > > I’m not sure what the BFD here is. Missourians have been quasi-legally betting on sports for as long as there have been sports to bet on. Your favorite bar’s 10x10 grid they offer before the Super Bowl. Your office’s NCAA March Madness brackets pool. Many fantasy football leagues. And that’s just what goes on behind closed doors. Betting on sports out in the open, such as via a website that facilitates such a transaction, maybe slightly more difficult in Missouri IF the website detects that you’re using a Missouri IP and IF the website cares enough to cock-block you and IF you don’t know how to use a VPN. > > Long story short, about all I can see that his amendment does is do away with the legal fiction that hides the “underground” sports betting that goes on openly and that absolutely no one cares about, and it allows casinos to open sportsbooks. > > I really don’t see a downside to this. Based on what I can tell, opposition to sports betting comes down to two things. 1) The belief that gambling itself, and the prolifieration thereof, is a societal ill that needs to be outlawed, not expanded/taxed, and 2) The belief that sports betting opens up the possibility of match-fixing. As for #1, I suppose we could debate it until we’re blue in the face and still not have any agreement (have we not been arguing about the societal ills of gambling for centuries?). As for #2, I’m guessing that 99.99 percent of the athletes in major professional sports make enough money that they’re not going to be inclined to take an envelope from Big Tony to miss a couple of free throws. > > Is there something that I’m missing here? I suppose there’s room for discussion about amateur (viz, college) sports being corrupted by gambling, and certainly the NCAA is (perhaps unjustifiably) concerned about it ruining college sports. But really, is the potential for college athetes taking bribes really that much of a concern? Pro sports fixing isn’t really a concern. College sports fixing is. Okay, the proliferation of money with NIL and the soon-to-happen actual payment of players makes it less of a problem now than it used to be, but it’s still a concern. I think the main problem is not legalized gambling per se - even California has horse racing tracks, card rooms, bingo, and tribal casinos - but the availability of online gambling, where it is almost impossible to validate that someone under 21 - under 18, for that matter - isn’t gambling under an assumed identity. The Missouri amendment will allow online sports betting. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/84 "2024-09-18T20:29:29Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The Missouri amendment will allow online sports betting. Which, if it passes, will take money out of the coffers of Kansas. Kansas has had legalized sports betting for a couple of years, during which Missourians have been driving across the state line to place their bets, of which a small percentage goes to the state. Kansans, of course, have been reciprocating by driving across the border to purchase cannabis in Missouri. (But please don’t tell the law enforcement folks in Kansas.) ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/85 "2024-09-18T20:33:06Z")
If a state allows betting, does that mean only people in that state can bet? Or that betting companies can be located in that state? If you aren’t in a legal-betting state, is it legal for you to engage in online betting with one of the legal betting companies that are in a different state? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/86 "2024-09-18T20:52:06Z")
No, for example someone in California cannot bet on Fan Duel or DraftKings because online sports betting is illegal in that state. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/87 "2024-09-18T20:54:24Z")
Many of the ads say you have to be present in the state to use their betting app. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/88 "2024-09-18T21:26:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Many of the ads say you have to be present in the state to use their betting app And this is exactly correct. You have to physically be in the state to use the app. As long as you are located in one of the legal states, you can bet. It doesn’t matter where you actually live. See my above comment about Missourians driving across the state line to bet in Kansas. Certainly it happens elsewhere as well. > [@filmore](#): > > Or that betting companies can be located in that state? Besides online betting being legal in Kansas, there are at least four betting establishments with brick-and-mortar presences in Kansas casinos: FanDuel, DraftKings, BetMGM, and Caesars. (These are the ones I know of; there may be others.) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/89 "2024-09-18T21:30:34Z")
Is it easy to fool with a proxy? (don’t tell me how. I’ll never do it and it’s against board rules) ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/90 "2024-09-18T21:42:53Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Is it easy to fool with a proxy? Don’t know, as I’ve never tried. Now, using a remote control application on a PC, such as TeamViewer, can bypass the physical location requirement. Of course, the remote PC has to be located in a legal state. (Not that I’ve ever used this method, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/91 "2024-09-24T11:32:51Z")
> **[Legalizing Sports Gambling Was a Huge Mistake](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/09/legal-sports-gambling-was-mistake/679925/)** > > The evidence is convincing: The betting industry is ruining lives. - for every $1 spent on betting, households put $2 less into investment accounts. - legalization increases the risk that a household goes bankrupt by 25 to 30 percent, and increases debt delinquency. - legal sports betting leads to a roughly 9 percent increase in intimate-partner violence. Those are the downsides specifically to the _legalization_ of sports betting as they relied on the inconsistent rollout of legalization across states to prove causation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/92 "2024-09-24T12:22:40Z")
The most important freedumb to many people is the freedumb to be irresponsible and ruin their own lives and those close to them. This is 'Murrica! We cannot restrict freedumb. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/93 "2024-09-24T12:35:26Z")
Legal sports betting is far from a uniquely American thing. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/94 "2024-09-24T12:56:38Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > [Legalizing Sports Gambling Was a Huge Mistake - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/09/legal-sports-gambling-was-mistake/679925/) I’d like to read this article, but it’s behind a paywall. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/95 "2024-09-25T03:43:12Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Legal sports betting is far from a uniquely American thing. Of course not. But, it wasn’t broadly legal here before, and is now, and the article notes the specific negative impacts which have occurred from legalization. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/96 "2024-09-25T03:46:46Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I’d like to read this article, but it’s behind a paywall. The money quotes, from the article (I have an Atlantic subscription), which @Shalmanese summarized: > [@](#): > > Because different states legalized sports gambling at different times, social scientists can compare different measures of well-being in states that did legalize with those that did not, before and after legalization. > > Alarming patterns have started to emerge. Two recent working papers look at the economic impacts of legalization. [One](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4881086), by Northwestern University’s Scott Baker and colleagues, finds that legal sports gambling depletes households’ savings. Specifically, for every $1 spent on betting, households put $2 less into investment accounts. States see big increases in the risk of overdrafting a bank account or maxing out a credit card. These effects are strongest among already precarious households. > > A [second paper](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4903302), from the economists Brett Hollenbeck of UCLA and Poet Larsen and Davide Proserpio of the University of Southern California, tells a similar story. Looking specifically at _online_ sports gambling, they find that legalization increases the risk that a household goes bankrupt by 25 to 30 percent, and increases debt delinquency. These problems seem to concentrate among young men living in low-income counties—further evidence that those most hurt by sports gambling are the least well-off. > > A third [recent paper](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4938642), from the University of Oregon economists Kyutaro Matsuzawa and Emily Arnesen, shows another, perhaps more surprising—and certainly more harrowing—harm of gambling legalization: domestic violence. [Earlier research](https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/card-dahl-family-violence.pdf) found that an NFL home team’s upset loss causes a 10 percent increase in reported incidents of men being violent toward their partner. Matsuzawa and Arnesen extend this, finding that in states where sports betting is legal, the effect is even bigger. They estimate that legal sports betting leads to a roughly 9 percent increase in intimate-partner violence. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/97 "2024-09-26T18:25:29Z")
I came here to quote the same bits of the same article, but I see I’m a bit late. People scream all the time that billionaires are screwing the little guy. But a lot of the same people would scream even louder if their gambling would be taken away. That’s why we can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/98 "2024-09-26T20:52:34Z")
See post 92. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/99 "2025-02-08T18:19:07Z")
> It feels like everything is a gamble these days, doesn’t it? That’s because, in many ways, it literally is. Sports betting, Wall Street speculation, crypto gambling, even loot boxes in video games—risk-taking has become a central part of American culture. When did we unknowingly turn the entire country into one giant casino? Adam Conover (16 min) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q5CHulFv9o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q5CHulFv9o) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310/100 "2025-02-08T18:24:45Z")
Also, in a bit of new news since this thread was last active: MLB umpre Pat Hoberg, who was seen as one of the best “balls and strikes” umpires in the game, was fired last week, for gambling. While there apparently was no clear evidence that Hoberg personally bet on games, between sharing wagering accounts with a known gambler, and deleting text messages, it’s not a good look at all. > [@](#): > > After a lengthy appeals process, Major League Baseball on Monday has fired umpire Pat Hoberg for “sharing” legal sports betting accounts with a friend who bet on baseball and for intentionally deleting messages key to the investigation into his conduct. > > MLB said Hoberg “adamantly denied betting on baseball directly or indirectly,” with commissioner Rob Manfred saying there was “no evidence” that Hoberg directly bet on games or manipulated the outcomes of any games “in any way.” > > In its statement, MLB said it fired Hoberg for failing to “uphold the integrity of the game” and that he “should have known” that his friend – a professional poker player – had bet on baseball from the shared account. > **[MLB fires ump Hoberg for shared betting account](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/43680990/mlb-upholds-firing-ump-pat-hoberg-gambling-violations)** > > MLB fired umpire Pat Hoberg for "sharing" legal gambling accounts with a poker player who bet on baseball. MLB said there was no evidence Hoberg bet on baseball himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-downside-to-legalized-sports-betting/1007310.md?page=4)