# Is there a female incel equivalent? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877 "2025-03-20T16:04:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/101 "2025-03-25T19:04:08Z")
I think the difference is that you haven’t defined a target female demographic, done your damnedest to get laid by someone in that demographic, failed, and then turned bitter and resentful whole blaming the entire gender for your own failure. That’s basically an incel to me - the emphasis is on the done your damnedest and the blaming thee gender for your own failure. You aren’t doing either of those- you don’t seem to be trying, and you aren’t blaming anything on women. > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Certainly there are women who feel they deserve to have what they consider to be a perfect man, and when they find men who are rich enough, handsome enough, manly enough, etc., and who don’t find her desirable, they can become angry and resentful. I was thinking about this could this be something of a perversion of the notion that one shouldn’t settle? Which I feel like was meant to reassure people that they didn’t need to compromise on really important things in order to meet external (parents/family/society) expectations for being married or whatever, and to boost confidence in choosing the right person. Instead it got warped into “I shouldn’t have to compromise \*at all \*”. Which isn’t a reasonable way to approach romance, dating, or relationships. It lends itself to people having absurd standards, especially when online dating is concerned. I wonder how much this mentality contributes to incel-ism - these guys feel like they are owed sex from women they seem attractive, and it definitely feels like there’s an element of this sort of unwillingness to compromise. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/102 "2025-03-25T19:14:34Z")
Seriously IMHO, it’s the entitlement that defines “incels” as a group, rather than the various literal definitions or self-definitions. The requirement that they are owed a woman, meeting their standards of attractiveness, and that “settling” for anything else is beneath them. You can quibble about the exact role they want of the woman, be it servant / wife / sex-object, but it’s the _deserve_ part of the equation that sets them apart. And _because_ of that, I don’t think there’s quite a female equivalent. Because, based on the substantial male privilege, I don’t think most (I’m sure there are exceptions, as seen in a lot of our online dating threads and this one!) where there’s the same entitlement. Sure, plenty of women aren’t willing to compromise (or say they won’t) on what they want, but they just keep shopping for the most part. A small, but significant difference in motivation and underlying entitlement. YMMV, etc. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/103 "2025-03-25T19:26:10Z")
What the (hetero?) version of male and female whatever-cels share is a loathing of the other gender and contempt for their counterparts who are perceived to easily get dates. Chads and PickMes are considered to be insincere and shallow. Because of privilege and cultural baggage, it’s not a complete analogy but it’s fairly close in my view and both are very toxic and bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/104 "2025-03-25T19:30:59Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > And _because_ of that, I don’t think there’s quite a female equivalent. Because, based on the substantial male privilege, I don’t think most (I’m sure there are exceptions, as seen in a lot of our online dating threads and this one!) where there’s the same entitlement. Sure, plenty of women aren’t willing to compromise (or say they won’t) on what they want, but they just keep shopping for the most part. Yeah, I think that the lack of privilege is the main reason why there isn’t really a female equivalent to the male incel phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/105 "2025-03-28T10:11:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yeah, I think that the lack of privilege is the main reason why there isn’t really a female equivalent to the male incel phenomenon. Male privilege is a thing, yet I do think that male and female incels are very similar in key aspects. The main difference lies in what they want to get. From what I understand, male incels want to f\*\*\* dozens of childless, unrealistically perfectly-groomed women at the turn of a switch whenever they want, women who look like top models or anime characters, who will cook, pamper and generally babysit them afterwards, and who will let them indulge in their hobbies, hang out with their friends, or just bedrot without ever complaining. Female incels want a man with countless elusive, often contradictory attributes, one who can-express-his-feelings-but-never-look-weak, is-at-least-6-foot-tall-but-who-would-never-body-shame-them, treats-them-fully-as-equals-except-when-good-old-chivalry-is-expected, takes-their-opinions-seriously-but-shows-leadership, is-career-driven-but-puts-her-at-the-top-of-his-priorities. But apart from that, they seem very similar to me. Both male and female incels appear to : - have a grotesquely bloated sense of their “worth” which leads them to - have pathetically delusional demands about the partner they “deserve” which in turn causes them to - go predictably from disappointment to more disappointment when reality doesn’t align 100% with their vision (“never settle!”) leaving them to - simmer in resentment and bitterness The way I see it, their end goals may be widely different, but the character flaws are exactly the same : entitlement, delusion and denial. A lot has been made of the whole _Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus_ concept but, for better and sometimes for worse, we have _a lot_ in common. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/106 "2025-03-28T10:47:38Z")
The aspect of male incels that elevates them from pitiful to terrible is, in my opinion, the tendency toward violence. Not all (or even a majority) go on shooting rampages; but as I understand it, incel communities often cheer on the killers or talk about violent fantasies or otherwise condone, glorify, minimize, and excuse violence against women. I’m unaware of any female incels who have committed injurious violence due to their ideology. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/107 "2025-03-28T12:06:41Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > have a grotesquely bloated sense of their “worth” I am no expert on either side but my sense has been that self-loathing is part of it for both sides as well? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/108 "2025-03-28T12:15:53Z")
I think it’s paradoxically a bit of both. You can’t attract a partner and it largely stems from a lack of social skills perhaps combined with lack of other factors like looks or status that would otherwise help mitigate the social skills thing. So you feel bad about that, get told that it’s not really _your_ fault, it’s _their_ fault because women are too shallow to recognize a good guy and those other guys are predators taking more than their share and it’s a whole system aligned to keep you single. Which is a lot more attractive to hear than “clean up your act”. So, on one hand, it’s a low sense of self-esteem that brought you there but then you’re also being told that you’re actually noble and wonderful, deserving of the perfect mate, and it’s everyone else who is flawed trash to be held in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/109 "2025-03-28T14:27:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m unaware of any female incels who have committed injurious violence due to their ideology. It’s very rare but > **[Valerie Solanas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Solanas)** > > Valerie Jean Solanas (April 9, 1936 – April 25, 1988) was an American radical feminist known for the SCUM Manifesto, which she self-published in 1967, and her attempt to murder the artist Andy Warhol in 1968. > On June 3, 1968, Solanas went to the Factory, shot Warhol and the art critic Mario Amaya, and attempted to shoot Warhol's manager, Fred Hughes. Solanas was charged with attempted murder, assault, and illegal possession of a firearm. After her release, she continued to promote the SCUM Ma... > **[Aileen Wuornos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Wuornos)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > Aileen Carol Wuornos (/ˈwɔːrnoʊs/; born Pittman; February 29, 1956 – October 9, 2002) was an American serial killer. In 1989–1990, while engaging in street prostitution along highways in Florida, she shot dead and robbed seven of her male clients. Wuornos claimed that her clients had either raped or attempted to rape her, and that the homicides of the men were committed in self-defense. Wuornos was sentenced to death for six of the murders. She was exec... ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/110 "2025-03-28T14:51:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But if you’re 45, being involved with a 33 year old woman is no big deal - not to mention legal! At least among some younger people, age gaps are red flags. I’ve seen people complain about someone someone who is 28 dating a 22 year old. It seems crazy to me, especially since my father was 10 years my mother’s senior, but disparaging age gaps is a thing now. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/111 "2025-03-28T14:52:02Z")
I have read both articles. Yes these women were, understandably, angry at men in general. I am not sure how either qualifies as a female incel- especially because they were both lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/112 "2025-03-28T14:53:13Z")
Very good point ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/113 "2025-03-28T16:00:20Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > Male privilege is a thing, yet I do think that male and female incels are very similar in key aspects. The main difference lies in what they want to get. Extremely hard disagree here. The most critical aspect that is different is the toxicity from male incels. And that comes from privilege. When female incels engage in mass shootings and other violence please let us know. Yes, those other similarities are there but they aren’t what make incels a matter of concern for society. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/114 "2025-03-28T16:13:41Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > toxicity That word? So used I don’t really know what it means? Female behaviors has its own “toxicity”. Male behaviors don’t have to be violent to be toxic. I see similarities in a self perception of being bullied becoming a bullier. Yes major differences with a small number of male incels becoming overtly violent or supporting violence and that less common as a female manifestation. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/115 "2025-03-28T16:15:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > [Aileen Wuornos - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Wuornos) The 2003 film based on her life is a must-see, IMO. Charlize Theron’s acting performance is one of the best and most convincing I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/116 "2025-03-28T17:20:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That word? So used I don’t really know what it means? Female behaviors has its own “toxicity”. Male behaviors don’t have to be violent to be toxic. In this case it means ratcheting up misogyny to the point of literal violence. Homicides have come out of incel communities. > [@DSeid](#): > > I see similarities in a self perception of being bullied becoming a bullier. Yes major differences with a small number of male incels becoming overtly violent or supporting violence and that less common as a female manifestation. _Less_ common? Where do you see anything in the female community that even approaches this? > **[Study Reveals How ‘Incels’ Become Violent Extremists](https://www.newark.rutgers.edu/news/study-reveals-how-incels-become-violent-extremists)** > > A new study by researchers at Rutgers-Newark and Penn State-Abington explores the radicalization process for “incels,’’ a term meaning “involuntary celibates,’’ and how their online community--where members define themselves by their inability to... ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/117 "2025-03-28T17:38:01Z")
Yes less common. But the point is being missed: whatever “toxicity” means it does not require a person being violent let alone killing somebody. Most of gets labeled as “toxic masculinity” does not include physical violence, and few of the incel group actually commit violent offense. Being violent is not what defines them or whatever “toxicity” means. A few of them being violent is a problem but not definitional. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/118 "2025-03-28T17:50:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes less common. Less common as in it’s not happening at all. Unless you have a cite saying otherwise. > [@DSeid](#): > > But the point is being missed: whatever “toxicity” means it does not require a person being violent let alone killing somebody. Most of gets labeled as “toxic masculinity” does not include physical violence, and few of the incel group actually commit violent offense. Being violent is not what defines them or whatever “toxicity” means. A few of them being violent is a problem but not definitional. Please read my cite. I’ll even help you. > Fowler, Green and Palombi analyzed nearly more 2,700 pages of incel posts from 2019. Their study explores how community members progress from a sense of solidarity to hostile radicalism, where violence is encouraged and sometimes carried out. > > “More than 80 percent of the posts was them talking about women and what they would do. A lot of it regarded violence,’’ said Green. If you want to insist there is an equivalence in female communities, please show it. I actually tried finding it because I thought maybe there was something but I can’t find **anything**. And two examples of individuals from 35-70 years ago isn’t showing that there is any kind of equivalence between modern day male and female incel communities. On the other hand, here is a cite showing that female incel communities _don’t_ do that. > **[Forget incels, meet ‘femcels’ – the generation embracing ‘toxic femininity’](https://www.the-independent.com/life-style/femcels-incels-sweetpea-b2635500.html)** > > They identify as ‘femcels’ – a female spin on involuntary celibate men, who worship at the altar of ‘Gone Girl’ and valourise sociopathy. But is this very online way of life a worthy pushback to regressive ideas of femininity, or just another way to... > The femcel researchers found that, like incels, femcels struggled with sexual frustration but that the gender dynamics of sex and power made them react differently. Rather than turning their frustrations out onto the world, as with incels, they turned it in onto themselves. Unlike fictional machiavellian femcels like the protagonist of _Sweetpea_ , self-described femcels in real life “were more interested in their own frustrations” and, generally speaking, “exhibited less support for aggression, violence and crime than what has been reported about male incels”. > Where incels blame women for their unhappiness, femcels blame themselves. Femcelism is a response to the patriarchal structures that govern our society, whereas incelism is misogynistic violence that exists within those patriarchal structures. Understandable enough. But while it might be convenient to take this more academic reading as an explanation for the femcel’s internet and cultural prominence, that’s still not the whole story. That is a lifestyle article, not a study, but I’m not seeing any scholarly studies that show any kind of equivalence, but there are certainly anecdotes showing the opposite. Female incels (or “femcels” as they are sometimes called) are more likely to blame themselves than blame the opposite sex. That is why I said that the biggest difference is rooted in privilege. Both communities can be toxic in their own way, but in the female community it’s an inward toxicity that is the opposite from the male community. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/119 "2025-03-28T17:55:25Z")
And none of this should be taken to mean that there aren’t women who have shitty, sexist attitudes about men, who have unrealistic and manipulative approaches to romantic/sexual relationships, who resent the people they’re attracted to. Obviously that’s all true, because people gonna people. But “incel” is a step beyond all that: it’s taking those terrible attitudes and approaches, fermenting it in a toxic community, and brewing up some violence. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877/120 "2025-03-28T18:10:42Z")
You believe that there have been zero murders of men by women who feel wronged? One female murderer of men was already cited in this thread. I’m sorry but such is a ludicrous position. Most femicide is not by incels. It is within the context of partnered relationships. But again you are not responding to what my point was - you are claiming incels are defined by their “toxicity” and that “toxicity” is defined by violence. I do not believe that violence is a prerequisite for being an incel, or even that having violent fantasies as a manifestation of their misogyny is. I am not sure that they feel “privileged” so much as they have a distorted view of reality that self perceives as persecuted and victimized. I think men and women groups both have people who feel that victimization by society writ large. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-female-incel-equivalent/1015877.md?page=7)